Creditcane™: I shoot. I score. Damn right.
SPXBearish short day. Midpoint above EMA(10). Still above all SMA's. Holding above the minor 38.2% retrace (1314.25). Daily 3LB reversal down (reversal is 1351.98). QE2infinity.
DXYBullish long day. Midpoint below EMA(10). Holding above the 38.2% retrace (78.43). Tested and held SMA(89). No daily 3LB changes (reversal is 79.58).
VIXSpinning top day (w/ huge volatility). Midpoint above EMA(10). Tested and held SMA(21). Tested and held its 50.0% minor retrace (20.22). Daily 3LB reversal up (reversal is 17.10).
GOLDSpinning top day. Midpoint below EMA(10). Tested and held its 38.2% retrace (1721.30). Still above all SMA's. New low on daily 3LB (reversal is 1759.30). Still above monthly 3LB mid. Must have the precious.
EURUSDBearish long day. Midpoint above EMA(10). Holding above SMA(55). Tested and failed its 61.8% minor retrace (1.3222). Daily 3LB reversal down (reversal is 1.3285).
JNKBearish short day. Midpoint below EMA(10). Still above all SMA's. Failing its 38.2% minor retrace (39.62). Daily 3LB reversal down (reversal is 39.68).
10YR YIELDSpinning top day. Tested and held SMA(55). Midpoint above EMA(10). Holding above its 0.0% retrace (18.96). No daily 3LB changes (reversal is 19.49).
WTIBearish short day. Tested and held SMA(21). Midpoint above EMA(10). Tested and held its 50.0% retrace (97.71). No dally 3LB changes (reversal is 96.36). Not confirming the monthly 3LB reversal down.
SILVERBearish short day. Holding above SMA(89). Midpoint above EMA(10). Holding above its 38.2% minor retrace (31.85). New low on daily 3LB (reversal is 34.20).
BKXBearish short day. Midpoint above EMA(10). Still above all SMA's. Holding above its 50.0% retrace (43.76). No daily 3LB changes (reversal is 43.61).
HYG/LQDBearish short day. Tested and failed SMA(55). Midpoint below EMA(10). Tested and failed its 38.2% retrace (0.7808). No daily 3LB changes (reversal is 0.7908).
EEMSpinning top day. Midpoint below EMA(10). Holding above all SMA's. Now failing its 61.8% retrace (43.48). Daily 3LB reversal down (reversal is 43.91).
COPPERBearish long day. Midpoint above EMA(10). Holding above all SMA's. Tested and failed its 50.0% retrace (3.863). No daily 3LB changes (reversal is 3.781).
AUDJPYBearish long day. Midpoint above EMA(10). Still above all SMA's. Still above its 61.8% retrace (0.8182). No daily 3LB changes (reversal is 0.7361).
IT HAS BEGUN. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
122 comments:
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Greenspan looks like he's posing to take one up the Barney Frank Expressway...
CV
That's just wrong. LMAO.
well anyway... assuming that's the case...
He TRULY finds himself between a rock and a hard place...
The "barney frank expressway"....
Oh man.
Looking forward to studying these markets more closely this weekend...try to understand WTF is going on...
these banksters are pretty fucking genius. They all started announcing "caps" on the cash bonuses to traders...they're all followed each others leads...it's like a tacit way of colluding to control wages of traders.
Genius.
Barclays just announced a $100K Cash cap for all employees....nice.
"...it's like a tacit way of colluding to control wages of traders..."
yes. though..
"...it's an implicit way of colluding--to control wages of traders..."
and, w/ "Genius.", True that~
I've, always, been amazed, when hearing 'others' speak of "the Idiots.." (blew up the Banks/f'ed up the Government/ruined Corporate America, etc.)..
Those dudes weren't 'Idiots'/incompetent/'stupid', etc. ..
They are Genius. part of the Genius is/was to get 'people' to think they were 'stupid'..(while achieving their 'goals'--that never would have been achieved w/o 'people' thinking they Were 'stupid'/incompetent/'Idiotic', etc. ..
AAIP
"Those dudes weren't 'Idiots'/incompetent/'stupid', etc. .."
So Joe Cassano was a genius? No wait, how about Ken Lewis? Stan O'neal or Dick Fuld.......anyone? I could do more, but whats the point
thats fucking hilarious......
___________________________________________________
as for trader bonuses and wage controls
if traders are "that good" they should leave the large money center bank right? Isn't that the simple solution if they aren't happy with the present comp structure?
After all, if they were so good at trading that previously they were getting huge bonuses you'd think they might have a few million in capital to get started, and even better still they'd no longer be w-2 employees.
poke some holes in that logic
@14:05
you should wonder (or Prove) why those 'dudes', that you mention, aren't listed here:
http://marionettes.com/
ibid.
or, while you're 'at it', read some of..
http://search.yippy.com/search?query=Confessions+of+an+Economic+Hit-Man&tb=sitesearch-all&v%3Aproject=clusty
and, tell us 'how many' of those Actors, ever, made it, concomitantly, into 'Print', under the NYT/WaPo/WSJ/et al. 'banner'..
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/concomitant
AAIP
I see, so you are going to claim those folks were "manipulated from above by strings" as if they were puppets, in other words, a marionette. Those poor fellows I listed above were simply the scapegoats for the puppet masters which are the pure genius then that you speak of.
then you ask me for proof as if, for example, it has not been well documented that "dudes" such as Joe Cassano were in fact pulling the trigger on horribly wrong trades and when he was confronted with being wrong, he decided to pull it even harder, and you say this as if to say that you have proof of your very own claims when all you really have is an opinion.
I suppose you think John Corzine was a scapegoat as well then? He didn't do anything much different than the people I mentioned above after all, just traded at a different time in a different market, but it was the same general error.
sorry, ibid, wall street is full of "idiots" and sometimes they make it all the way to the top and blow up a company in the process, sometimes the idiots from Wall Street (or any other sector in fact) make their way into government and do even more damage..... no puppet master needed, a big ego is more than enough of a prerequisite but I realize this description is hardly as exciting as yours could be for the imagination.
John Perkins is a professional liar, by his own admission in fact
so why then should I trust anything he writes?
why do you?
besides, his other books are far more interesting
Shapeshifting: Shamanic Techniques for Global and Personal Transformation; Spirit of the Shuar: Wisdom from the Last Unconquered People of the Amazon; The Stress Free Habit: Powerful Techniques for Health and Longevity from the Andes, Yucatan, and Far East; and Psychonavigation: Techniques for Travel Beyond Time,
@14:31
looks like you "Passed" that "Intro to Logical Fallacy"-Class..
Good Going~
you speak of 'Cassano', the dude of AIG-fame, yes?
then.."...as if, for example, it has not been well documented that "dudes" such as Joe Cassano were in fact pulling the trigger on horribly wrong trades and when he was confronted with being wrong, he decided to pull it even harder..."
that's fine..but, then why wasn't 'Cassano' Prosecuted? or Convicted?
neither, Right?
just, ~"oops, 'We' need centi-Billions (deca-Trillions(?)) to 'Bailout' "the Banks", or 'the Economy' will 'disappear'..'
~~
'big ego' =~"Sociopath(-ic)" (?)
sure, that's fine..but, again, Why weren't these dudes, incl. 'Corzine', Prosecuted?
forget about "Puppet Masters", the (whole) thing is 'a Show'..
ibid.
@14:44
'Poisoning the Well', grreat~
another Logical Fallacy..
gotta luv 'Anon.'-pos-(t)-ers..
all 'Accusation & Assumption' + no Logic is a Great Combo..
ibid.
logical fallacy?
you are debating me with a faceless enemy, one that can be neither confirmed nor denied and by your or me and that has been spoken about only by sources claiming to have some connection with this enemy, an enemy that cannot be defined in any way and is "confirmed" by self proclaimed career liars and manipulators, and you have the nerve to then accuse ME of logical fallacy.
Your posts are in fact no different than mine at all. You think your argument is a good one yet the premise of your argument only establishes that your conclusion is "probably" true, you have no "proof", leaving it deductively invalid. I balanced your deductively invalid statements with some of my own.
you speak of a shadow that controls all of humanity and "prove" it by making the claim that none of the idiots I speak of have been prosecuted
but I'd simply ask why they should be prosecuted in the first place, you JUST SAID they were simply order takers/puppets, not the conspirators.
It begs the question:
Do you promote the prosecution of scapegoats rather than those forcing them into action?
and for the record, this "poser" is ben22
I simply much prefer the reactions I get on this site when I post as anon and, for the record, I was being serious when I said that Perkins other books were far more interesting to me. It was not said to damage his character, he already did that to himself.
That said, I'll pose the same question about him again. Given his own self proclaimed character in his book, why should I "trust him" rather than drawing my own conclusions?
I'm sure you are quite aware of the issues with "testimonials"
and just one more thing, about this comment:
"sure, that's fine..but, again, Why weren't these dudes, incl. 'Corzine', Prosecuted?"
I often try to put myself in the shoes you guys talk about, these "controllers"
and here is what I think about the above:
if I were this shadow, you better believe i'd have found away to put Joe Cassano into jail, same with Corzine, in fact, I might have just ended them, if you catch my drift
cut any possible ties with me and the potential for me to be outed, further distance myself from it all, and then on to my next enabler.....as if I have any feelings for these people, they are simply dirt on the bottom of my shoe, exactly what you said, sociopathic actions
"...and for the record, this "poser" is ben22..."
that's too funny..I was, just, going to ~say as much..
along the Lines of ~"It's too bad the dudes, like 'CrackieB', don't bother to read Books like...
The Bottom Line: Colonel House controlled President Woodrow Wilson, from behind the scenes. He was one of the most powerful people in his time. Have you ever heard of him?
Quote on the first page of the book:
“This book is dedicated to the unhappy many who have lived and died lacking opportunity, because, in the starting, the world-wide social structure was wrongly begun.”
Personal Thoughts on this Book:
I had never heard of this book until a few days ago. Most Americans have never heard of Colonel House, yet he was one of the most powerful political persons in history. I came across this book when I was reading ,“Tragedy and Hope” by Carroll Quigley.
I was fascinated by this book. However, I felt an uneasiness, as I compared this book to current day politics. This book is the blueprint for running a “shadow government”, where a small group of elite and rich bankers manipulate and control politicians from behind the scenes. They do this in secrecy and through various private groups they create. One of these groups is the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). This is a semi-private group, and membership is by invitation only.
I found myself comparing Wilson to Bush, and Dru to Rove. When you look at these relationships, you begin to put the pieces of the political puzzle together. You realize that much more influence is involved than what the public knows about.
Is this the blueprint being used in American government today? Is there a “shadow government” in control, like what occurred in the Woodrow Wilson government with Colonel House wielding control from the shadows? The Fabian strategy was used then. This strategy operates slowly and secretly until it arrives at its political goal: Socialism.
Americans need to read this book. It is both eye-opening and startling that something written in 1912 could possibly have such an impact in our current government...."
http://www.epinions.com/review/Philip_Dru_Administrator_by_Edward_Mandell_House/content_268343086724?sb=1
or, Quigley's "Tragedy and Hope"..
~~~~
but, here: "...You think your argument is a good one..." is where your 'big Problem' is..
I wasn't trying 'to make an Argument'..was, merely, asking Questions..
there is a, Large, difference..
but, really, it's EZer to Assume, yes?
ibid.
Mc22,
btw, How's that 'Deflation'-Trade working out for you?
ibid.
"...I might have just ended them, if you catch my drift..."
well, there is a 'Problem' w/that..
after a while, Peep start to 'catch-on'..
see..
http://arkancide.com/
to begin with..
ibid.
ha...... I've been long for months, well documented just not here....
as discussion of such things on this blog is entirely pointless in my opinion, its why I don't really post here anymore
haven't even really mentioned the word deflation since roughly 2010
but I see I have you a bit worked up now, so thats fine you bring that up, those were wrong calls at the time
like I said, I enjoy what posting as anon "brings out" anymore.....I doubt had I originally posted under my name that we'd have ended up here
and as for your claim about asking questions, I don't see a single question in your 1:22 which i originally responded to
only statements about the way you think things are is what I thought I was reading there....what I think pretty much anyone reading that would have though, typically when people asking questions they use the ole ?
so pardon my assumptions for not realizing you were asking questions, such things can be lost in print, on a blog
as for this:
"but, really, it's EZer to Assume, yes?"
twice now in 10 minutes you've made assumptions about the books I read, as if you have any idea! First with Perkins and now with your admission about what you were going to say regarding how its "too bad I don't....."
take care man, no hard feelings.....
"after a while, Peep start to 'catch-on'.."
oh brother, theres the same problem with what your claims of what they do take part in
peeps ( like you) are apparently starting to catch on without them doing such things, yes? I suppose you'd answer that this isn't being outed yet because not enough people are catching on, you know, people like me that have my head burried in those silly technical analysis texts instead are still the vast majority
so I'd still stick with what I said, you have some big "event" every few years and you off some of the known puppets in the wake of it, if you want to claim that someone can publish a book with the inside details of some of the ways the shadow operates that has now been an 8 time NY bestseller if I'm not mistaken then surely you think they could get away with this as well, after all, the dummy sheeple are going to be much more inclined to follow stories like this josh powell than some derivatives trader...
Why do you think Perkins didn't get more specific in his book?
I mean why didn't he name names more specifically in his book as i'm pretty sure he didn't do that in the book.
He talks a lot about the courage we'll need to have on his website, but wouldn't have then been a sign of real courage, naming names of the actors he was involved with?
Is he even accomplishing anything with his book then as a result? ....you can buy his book at Wal Mart.....you know I'm saying?
@b22
Today Booey sent me the invite to FBB'12...
So I e-mailed him 2 say u wanted to join if possible... So in any case, expect 2 hear from him (by Grandma e-mail) if there's a spot...
It may still take a bit because I'm sure he's assessing who (from last year) is still in...
cv,
sounds good, I'm still in, will keep an eye out for it
@b22
when I registered my team, it was still only the classic ALWAYS THERE guys...
- Booey
- me
- my bro
- red
@Hof
How about you???
I think I remember you're a beisbol fan...
Wanna get in2 a fantasy league?
"...but I see I have you a bit worked up now..."
CrackieB,
hardly.
and, here: "...such things can be lost in print, on a blog..."
take note.
~~
but, w/:"...haven't even really mentioned the word deflation since roughly 2010..."
is, part of, the Point..~"if you were so Wrong, then...maybe your (whole) Aperture is 'occluded'.."
also, you take it that I 'put a lot of Stock in 'Perkins''..as opposed to using him as a 'Placeholder'..
with 'Perkins', try reading some 'Historical' accounts of McKinsey & Co. (the 'Consulting'-Firm) and their 'Impact' on "Corporate America"--as a 'Substitute'..
LSS: it's EZer to 'believe' that dudes, like Corzine, or Cassano, are, merely, Buffoons..
harder, to attempt to figure out what the MSM isn't telling you..to your point--"...you can buy his book at Wal Mart.....you know I'm saying?..."
~~
ibid.
cv--
thanks for the Invite..
I do like Beisbol, but 'Fantasy' "Sports" aren't 'my Bag'..
AAIP
@AAIP
beisbol been berry berry good 2 me... :-)
ibid,
if you were simply trying to tell me that I have been wrong about things before and I could be wrong again then thats a fairly simple statement to make. but again, I was simply responding to what I believed you were presenting as "they way things are" you've made clear you were really just asking questions and of course I could be completely wrong.
The bottom line going back to the genesis of this is that my opinion is that Joe Cassano, Ken Lewis, Dick Fuld and so on, are not people that I would describe as "genius"
going to stick with that.
also,
there is some bit of irony that you in particular are putting my own quote about what can be lost on a blog back to me, I would gather there are some people that can't read any of your posts, ever. I know personally there have been many times I've read your posts through 2-3 times and I still didn't understand what you were saying.
excuse all the typos, I'm trying to do a few things at once
"...I would gather there are some people that can't read any of your posts, ever..."
McB,
no doubt, though, 2 things: 1. They can, always, Ask..and, 2. if not, that's their Problem..
also, what do believe about..
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/02/digging-deeper-into-who-controls-world.html
?
AAIP
personally I like trying to figure it out, if I'm being real, I have to look up about 1/3 of the words you post
McB,
w/: "...I have to look up about 1/3 of the words you post..."
you know, I had a 3rd Grade teacher..in her Class, everyday We did 'Definitions', at least 6, 12 on Wednesdays..
had to crack open the Dictionary, and transcribe the Definition (of the Word..)
'Everybody' hated Wednesdays for that 'Reason'..
not me, I 'loved' those Exercises -- needless to say, I spent time reading the nearby Entries, as well..(waiting for 'the rest of the Class' to finish)
learned a tremendous amount that Year, and, have always appreciated (moreso) 'the Dictionary' (and the differing qualities of the ones available/used..) since..
AAIP
this one..(online)
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/
is pretty good..~
gonna have to come back to that one another time, 459
have to head out to something
@Hof
I confess that I was not following the whole conversation (above), but I caught the (4:59) post and clicked on the link...
I gotta admit that I only skimmed over that link as well ~ as I generally tend to do with things ~ as I much prefer to get the 'gist' of arguments rather than start with a bunch of details ~ the reason being, when an argument is started with too many details on the table, it tends to lead to a lot of non sequitur moments and/or false dilemmas being created. Easier (for me anyway), to build from the ground up. In fact, that's why my 'logic' seems 'illogical' at times, because usually I find myself breaking down an issue to it's root cause whereas the person that brought is up is starting on page 52
Anyway (regarding the link)... It appears that the MAIN POINT of the link had (or has) to do with the ability (or not) to CONTROL things...
-continued-
Now if I'm wrong, (in context to what was being discussed earlier in this thread ~ meaning: if it DOESN'T apply) you can stop me here...
Or you can read on, because I'm simply taking an issue [ABILITY TO CONTROL & MANIPULATE ~ OR NOT], and building an argument out of that subject alone...
-continued-
I believe that has been discussed on this blog over & over again...
Personally, I used to believe that it would be DIFFICULT to control things & that the market operated ABOVE all that... In all of the digging that I have done henceforth, I'm convinced of completely the opposite [to wit: PAPER markets can be controlled rather easily]...
I'm not sure if that was TOTALLY what your link was dealing with, but I'm sure it had many of the same elements...
Here's why I think PAPER MARKETS can be (& are) controlled...
A person would NEVER understand my argument if they thought of "the market" as being millions & billions of moving parts... The only way that MANIPULATION or CONTROL can occur is if:
1. there are FEW moving parts
2. there are still millions & billions of moving parts, but the MASS on one of the parts is so great so as to render all the others non-essential... (think Archimedes lever)
So how does one reduce all the various parts to one? (Which is the only way that once could logically begin to buy into any talk of market manipulation)...
~~~~~
I've heard stories that the various 'holdings' of the Rothschild family amount to as much as $500 TRILLION dollars (denominated in today's dollars)... Now one could scoff at that number, or they could read on... Naturally, I have no way to prove whether that is true or not, but when you think about the idea that they are main shareholders of the US Federal Reserve, & basically own the Bank of England, it becomes more understandable... Think anout all the banks that fall under those two houses, now think of all the DEBT (as money), now think that NONE of that debt has really been expunged (mostly just heaped into soverign debt through bailouts, etc.)... Now think of the interest payments on all of that... & it becomes clearer to see...
-continued-
Now one could laugh and say... SO WHAT? A lot of that is non-performing debt money (loans that will never be repaid that the Fed Res & ECB heaped onto their balance sheets)... But under the system it still can be used as collateral to do anything they want...
Money continually flows to them... As long as countries aren't defaulting, money still flows to the gilded few (and the amounts are getting bigger and bigger with each bailout)...
I've said it before on this blog... That I believe a lot of that is being converted into physical assets as we speak... At the top of that list is GOLD, but it still runs the gamut of any precious & industrial commodities that can be stockpiled...
So one asks... "Well ~ Why isn't the price of gold exploding"... My answer is... Have you looked at the price of gold over the past 10 years vs. the dollar... Then looked at the S&P (in dollars), over the past decade? (& remember, to HELP keep the S&P or DOW where it is today, they have to do a magic act of constantly tossing out underperforming companies & re-weighting it with performing ones... Apple itself accounts for an inordinate share of it...
I made the joke on this blog a few week ago (which WAS NO JOKE ~ it was TRUE)... That AAPL, based on what was being "priced in" (by Cramericans ~ who buy into the silly notion that there's VALUE in a company because of their "growth" numbers), was already ridiculously high... R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S-L-Y...
The math went as follows... The "growth trajectory" of what Apple was reporting (in dollars), if sustained (& isn't that the "justification" to buy a stock, or it falls?)... anyway, AAPL, by comparison to the same predicted "growth" predictions of the GDP's of ALL the countries of the world... Well ~ Apple would have a higher GDP than the COMBINED GDP of all the nations of the world by 2026...
Pretty silly huh? (I suppose not, because peoplke are buying AAPL stock because of growth, & when that stops... Where is the stock going to be... and by extension where is the S&P going to be)?
I use that as a silly little example to illustrate that as long as THE GAME can be played (people thinking the world isn't collapsing because the stock market isn't selling off), then, INTEREST PAYMENTS continue to be paid to the central banks (who are owned by very few people MAINLY the Rothschild family)...
-continued-
Now you say to yourself...
"Well ~ if the Rothschild family has such a good thing going here, why would they ever want it to end"?...
Good question:
The answer is... THEY KNOW IT WILL EVENTUALLY END & ARE ACTUALLY PLANNING FOR THAT OCCURRENCE...
Everyone knows you can't play a ponzi to infiniti... But if that's the case, why does anyone start ponzi schemes to begin with?... The answer to that is that, generationally speaking, there are ALWAYS new fools to be duped... Hell ~ I'm 50 years old and never in my life figured out this was all going on behind the scenes until just a few years ago... & I don't consider myself a stupid person...
"Think about how stupid the average person is, then stop and realize that HALF the people in the world are, by rule, more stupid"
~George Carlin
The 'trick' in a ponzi is to get out while you can... GETTING OUT (in the case of a fractional reserve banking paper ponzi) entails converting the NOTES to REAL ASSETS incrementally...
In the beginning stages it is done in small portions (& there might even be some real collateral that the banks are holding... YOU'RE COLLATERAL)... The 'quick' version goes something like this...
- start a fiat currency and back it with gold (which the Fed did in 1913).
- start with, more or less, REAL BANKING, by collecting deposits, issuing loans, etc. to establish TRUST in the new currency and the operation of the new system. (works great in a country that has a manufacturing base, cheap labor, and abundant natural resources)
- INCREASE OUTPUT... This is best done by starting a WAR (which forces manufacturing into high gear and is otherwise costly to do & requires the participation of government)... We'll get to the subject of wars later...
- After the war, create a false 'boom' (which is easily done by increasing the money supply)... As a rule, the most convenient time to do this is POST WAR (because it is a naturally ebullient time, people that 'feel good', spend money)... The Fed increased the money, I've read, 62% during the 1920's "ROARING TWENTIES"...
- Crash the market... Of course... expanding the money supply artificially always ends in sorrow... but the SORROW is only had by the moms & pops who went on a joy ride in financial markets... The REAL REASON for a stock market crash is to CONSOLIDATE the banks (translatioin=MONOPOLY)... The 'chosen' ones get to cherry pick all the GOOD LABOR that happened during the boom times... Much of it will pay handsome rewards for years to come thereafter...
- It's also a good time (post panic), to put the government into high gear on controlling the population... In the aftermath of the 1929 stock market crash, & after FDR came into (cough, cough was PUT into power ~ don't make me go into FDR's ties with the banking elite)... A "bank holiday" was declared... Together with that, GOLD was confiscated (stolen), & new dollars were issued in exchange for that... As soon as the bricks were all melted, the PEG to the dollar was changed (meaning your new dollars were immediately devalued)...
- We can skip merrily along now, & perhaps only pause to reflect on what WWII added to the ledger (in terms of OUTPUT)... Remember OUTPUT (in a bankers term), IS NOT the same thing as output to a regular person... To bankers, wars mean PRODUCTION (machines, fuel, ammunition, supply chains, the whole shebang)... If there were NO WAR, output would be limited to the small daily nibbles that humans undergo...
-continued-
I'm waiting... can't stay up all night ya know
...interesting
here 2,
tho..he's on the 'right track'..
ibid.
in the meantime..
"Eric Blair
Activist Post
As the definition of a domestic extremist continues to expand to include activists for peace, animal rights, currency, natural health, liberty and other noble causes, the FBI is ready to make an example out of one group in particular: Libertarians.
The FBI held a press conference Monday to "increase the visibility of the threat" that people who oppose taxes and regulations, government intrusions into their private property, and the desire for sound money allegedly pose to local authorities.
Although the FBI vaguely attempts to label this group as "sometimes known as 'sovereign citizens'", the description sounds an awful lot like me, and millions of other liberty-minded people in America that don't associate with any group.
They also sound like Ron Paul supporters.
According to Reuters:
Anti-government extremists opposed to taxes and regulations pose a growing threat to local law enforcement officers in the United States, the FBI warned on Monday.
..."
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/02/fbi-attempts-to-make-libertarians.html
AAIP
- Wars also mean DEBT (to the countries that have to fund them)... They have to borrow the money from bankers (who print, cough cough, counterfeit, the money to fund the effort)... The bankers collect interest, and the bill is slowly raked from the gullible citizens via taxes & incremental inflation...
- Interestingly, in THIS go around with FIAT PAPER, a new phenomenon occurred... OIL & after WWII, the oil in the US began to diminish... Which means, that post WWII, the main focus, to build the ponzi further, had to naturally deal with geologically strategic zones (think Middle East), AND, establishing the "petrodollar" as a world currency... In simple terms... Absent a war, the main OUTPUT for bankers to make money (keep collecting interest payments), had to do with global manufacturing & trade... Oil was/IS the key component to that, so sources had to be secured... The Saudi/US relationship has been going on since the beginning... & the US 'used' to have the same arrangement (by installing the puppet 'Shah', in Iran, until that arrangement came to an end & we don't 'officially' deal with Iran on oil anymore)... Iran is also one of the few countries in the world that doesn't have a central bank affiliated with the Rothschild empire... Go figure...
-Fast forward to 1971, and the US, after yet ANOTHER war (Vietnam), oh, & this time you can add to the debt pile Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society" (which was basically more debt heaped on to a soverign balance sheet in the form of the notion of 'entitlements')... Remember that Lyndon Johnson replaced Kennedy (who was shot ~ more on that later ~ but Kennedy was shot less than 6 months after he signed an executive order for the US to issue a SILVER BACKED currency "silver certificates", which could compete against FRN's & before the escalation of the war in Vietnam, the crux of which, happened after the curious "Gulf of Tonkin" incident in 1964, much the same way that that "Pearl Harbor" happened in 1941 curiously AFTER the US has moved all it's newest fleet to sea and only had "to be scuttled" ships in Pearl Harbor... Anyway, Kennedy ~ bang bang, you're dead)... Nixon, in 1971, & advised by Kissinger (who is an archduke in the Rothschild empire), floats the US dollar (officially canceling Bretton Woods & the peg to gold)... Immediately there is is massive inflation (for which Nixon unsuccessfuly implements price controls), and soon thereafter, there are problems with the Middle East countries who decide to embargo their oil shipments because of the new funny money... It takes about a decade for all that to resolve...
- Paul Volcker steps in and (gets credit for), putting the inflation genie back in the bottle (which is really a falsehood)... Instead ~ more lax rules with regards to banking & finance occur & a market that had been on its ass and really hadn't seen it's last peak since 1966, takes hold... Enter Reagan (& defecit spending ~ you know, to 'topple' the Soviet Regime (who was also outside the Rothschild central banking unmrella), and the roaring 20's are here again... Regan appoints 'Greenspan' (posing for the Barney Frank Expressway in foto above), and, well, Greenspan basically does exactly what he's doing in that foto (being Sisyphus), for almost better part of 2 decades...
-continued-
- At this point (remember what we're talking about here are WAYS TO KEEP A PONZI SCHEME BASED ON FIAT CURRENCY GOING ~ CONTROLLED BY FEW)... It is more difficult to have WARS as a part of the picture... Technology plays a role... The 'technological' trump card are nuclear weapons... Nuclear arms more or less prohibit large scale ground wars (like WWI & WWII, Korea, or Vietnam) from occurring... WARS get demoted to 'skirmishes'... But that game (from a bankers POV) is still far from over... There's still a lot of investment into the MIC (military industrial complex), for cooler & cooler toys... But a way is needed to be able to put those toys into field operations... ENTER TERRORISTS... But the problem is, that people don't understand fighting a WAR on TERROR (or at least they didn't used to ~ I remember there were 'terrorist' attacks all the time back in the 70's, mostly hijackings, but they came & went)... To turn this into a BUSINESS, you need an event... ENTER 9/11 (I'm not going to get into detail on WTC7, or, the nano-thermite that was found in the steel from the buildings, or any of that)... I'm going to cut to the chase and say that the subsequent WAR ON TERROR (which has involved an invasion of Iraq (on false terms), & a 10 year occupation in Afghanistan (the longest continual military engagement in US history ~ that is still ongoing), DOES conveniently fit the bill for 'finding a reason' to PILE ON DEBT (which, I'm getting bored saying this now), is paid IN INTEREST back to bankers, whereby MOST of the money received ends up only in a few hands... The thing about this WAR ON TERROR is that it is beautiful (for bankers) in so many different ways...
- First of all... IT NEVER ENDS... So as long as people sit back & think that they're government is 'fighting the good fight' (by spending billions & trillions for high tech weaponry to go around chasing towel heads with box cutters in caves), then by golly the world is a safer place and you can wave your flag & salute the soldiers, & report your neighbors... & oh yeah, don't forget to go to work on Monday, get on the treadmill, & pay your taxes (cause guess where they're going)?...
- More importantly... This WAR ON TERROR is conveniently located (in the Middle East)... Besides being where the oil is, the US military also has 'surrounded' the very place in the world where there are no Rothschild central bank influence... At this point, we're basically talking (Iran, Venezuela [but leave that out for now], Russia, China, & North Korea [but leave that out too])... Focus on IRAN... Oh & you could have included Iraq & Libya about a decade ago on that list, but the minute that Hussein (& later Khadaffi) decided that they wanted to STOP exchanging their oil for DOLLARS & wanted gold)... Well ~ curiously, they're not around anymore... Anyway... IRAN (stupidly or not), is following in the same footsteps as Hussein & Khadaffi... BIG PROBLEM with Iran though... There's heavy support from both Russia & China for Iran... Going to war with Iran means going to war with Russia & China... & yes, the worst case scenario there is that nukes start flying around... Nobody wants that (not even the Rothschilds ~ or at least I wouldn't think so)...
-continued-
- Frankly, I can't imagine that war game playing out, but even if it doesn't, it will continue to manifest itself... If Iran can succeed to STAND AGAINST the banks (by selling it's oil to other customers [China, India, etc.] in exchange for gold, then the bankers will; have to write that one off... However, it creates another problem... If Iran succeeds, then you can put a clock on the 'petrodollar' ponzi as being over... ANYBODY that can, will start dumping dollars hand over fist (because they won't need to be held, because they are really only held to purchase oil)...
- THE BANKERS KNOW THIS... But they're trying to keep a lid on it for as long as they can... Which is WHY the ponzi continues, and now the debt spiral simply gets kicked into high gear... The BANKERS CAN STILL WIN THE GAME when the ponzi explodes... The way they do that is by siphoning off the massive interest payments that are now coming their way and converting them as quickly as possible to physical commodities (especially gold... WHY? you ask then is the price of gold not exploding?... Easy, because in the FINANCIALIZATION of the floating dollar (post Nixon), every regulatory obstacle in the book has been reconfigured in a way to assist the bankers at their game... PAPER COMMODITY markets (which are extemely thin markets) can easily be manipulated though naked shorting... One would have to be a FOOL to believe that central banks (who cannot be audited), can't find a way to naked short anything they want (especially the thinly traded markets)... In this case, they do it for a reason... To artificially suppress the price, and incrementally acquire the physical with the other hand (via their interest payments ~ which are getting huge)... Meanwhile ~ they tinker around with the rest of the markets to keep idiot traders thinking that all this stuff works because they are in love with their charts & graphs that ASSURE them that that is the case...
-continue-
- The laughable thing about the charts & graphs are that EVEN THE LARGEST ONES (which date back to early 1900's) are still all basically based on THE PONZI ITSELF...
- IOW: You're looking at charts that came into being based on the value of a currency that has a sole proprietor aspect to it...
- That's not saying that someone, in 1913, planned everything out for the next century... I'm not saying that at all... But think about where it all began (I described it above)... It evolves as an honest system... Then the bankers crank up the presses, by funding wars, expanding the money supply, crashing the market, consolidating the manufacturing base, heaping on more public debt through programs & entitlements, fund more wars, create wars that never existed before (terror ~ the only one that hasn't been tried yet, I think, is space aliens, it's coming), lax the regulatory environment, get everyone dependenty on the goverenment tit, etc. etc.
- Hell, probably by the stock market crash in 1929, there was enough "chartage", to last a century... Bankers knew that through all the gyrations of wars, technology, whatever, the little obedient market traders would fall in line and go back to their little Linus Van Pelt security blanket (their charts)...
- Funny thing is... the charts PROBABLY ARE reliable... But only in the context of minor moves... One day, the whole ponzi will crash (which means the dollar will end), and no chart in the world will predict when that will come...
- Essentially the day will come when "THEY" want it to... I'm not trying to paint a picture that somebody pushes a button and it all goes "poof" (like the South Park cartoon)... Instead, it happens when, for instance, they decide that somebody will default (which begins a toppling of dominoes, which eventually leads to a whole new system)... This has happened many times in past history all over the world... It may happen through war (but remember WHO it is that is financing the war, and remember WHO it is that the debt is owed to & you start to get a clearer picture of CONTROL)...
In the end, it's CONTROLLED by few...
My best guess is that we're in an acceleration phase if the ponzi ending... But it's too enticing to pass up the opportunity (with the ginormous debt & interest payments happening now coupled with the ability to stockpile raw commodities all around the globe as well as PM's)... Meanwhile, keeping people 'distracted' through entertainment, media, & basic ignorance of what's going on behind the scenes...
Remember when I said that it is estimated that the Rothschild holdings were estimated at $500T?... Well really, that's an insignificant number in reality... Why? Because when the paper ponzi detonates, that 'notional value' will also detonate...
But the DIFFERENCE is that they have (over more than 2 centuries ~ since the battle of Waterloo ~ which was 1815 ~ & the Fed was created in 1913 - just saying), in the process, 'divested' (which is to say 'divested' of paper, and acquired reall assets in the process...
- extensive land holdings
- gold & PM holdings
- media & publications (they own Reuters who owns Associated Press)
- & they have funded key infrastructure projects (thereby acquiring 'partners in crime' along the way)... oil (Rockefeller), steel industries, railroads, ship building, agriculture... the whole works...
SO THEY WON'T LOSE... But YOU WILL (because you have just been playing with their counterfeit money all along thinking it had value & could be redeemed for something)... Actually... IT CAN be redeemed for something... SO GET TO REDEEMING IT GODDAMMIT! (and stop playing around with market ticks)...
-continued-
In any case, when the plug is eventually pulled and the dominoes start to fall, it WON'T be armageddon...
There will be dislocation (maybe even for months on end)... Most will lose anything of VALUE that they ever owned (I mostly mean bank account balances here)...
- a home or land will still be of value (but it will acquire a new value based on whatever the new paradigm is)
- anything you USE daily, of course, still has value
- food, of course, is essential, & mostly to get you thru the dislocation between when the shelves go bare, to when new infrastructure becomes established... (I really don't think the average person has a grasp on the reality of this)...
- gold & PM's (but the funny thing is ~ I don't look at gold or silver and ever consider it's DOLLAR worth... What good is that if there are no dollars)?... But they will be valuable because they will be recognized as something of value when a new system evolves (as has been the case for more than 5,000 years of 'recorded' history)...
- Fuel will be HUGE (& I can't say THAT enough)... I'm getting tired typing here, so anyone can figure that out 4 themselves...
But afterwards, people will return to work (mainly for key logistical industries), the pieces will be picked up and life will go on... The first thing to get used to will the the PRICES & SCARCITIES in the new world... Americans will be utterly shocked to see what they have to pay (relative to their wage) for certain things...
I'm even thinking that the bankers (Rothschild family), might go into hiding for a generation or so... Let the people scramble around aimlessly awhile & fend for themselves... After awhile (when the natural progession of things ~ THAT'S THE REAL UNMANIPULATED MARKET THAT WE AALL LIKE TO BELIEVE EXISTS ~ when that progression establishes a foothold, they'll come back out of hiding, bribe the right people, fund some endeavors, (this time, from gold from their vaults), and within a few years, a new FIAT ponzi will begin anew... A generation removed, nobody on the planet will even remember what happened during the last one (or that it happened at all)... It'll all be folklore...
And that's the beauty of it...
Oh by the way... Here's a little history of the United States & it's relation to the Rothschild entity...
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The US has defaulted at least six times.
1. Default of 1779. To finance the Revolutionary war, the Continental Congress printed inflationary dollars, paying their creditors only 2.6 cents on the dollar. Hence the old saying “not worth a continental”.
2. Default of 1790. The Continental Congress borrowed $11 Million. The government refused to repay any of this debt.
3. The Greenback Default of 1862. In 1861 Congress created a new currency called the greenback, $60 million worth, redeemable at any time for 4.8 ounces of gold per dollar. But in 1862 the US treasury refused to redeem in gold and issued non-redeemable notes at a 40% discount from original value.
4. The Liberty Bond Default of 1934. To finance WWar I our government sold Liberty Bonds in 1917 @ 4.25% interest payable in gold at $20.67 per ounce. By 1933 our lying government had issued $29 Billion of these bonds but had only $4.2 billion in gold. So Pres. Roosevelt confiscated every citizens’ gold making it a crime to own gold and devalued the bonds 40%. I remember my father and grandfather talking about losing their money on this default.
5. The Default of 1971. After WWar II the US printed dollars backed by gold again @$35 per ounce. But Pres. Lyndon Johnson printed so much money to finance the Vietnam War and his “Great Society Social Program that Pres. Nixon had to default on the gold redemption. Congress then went wildly insane, printing money backed only by the “Full Faith & Credit of our Lying Government.” As a result today your dollar is worth only one sixteen hundreds of its 1971 value. That is less than 1cent of an ounce of gold in purchasing power.
6. Default #6 is ongoing today. Every time the Fed prints more money, the value of the dollar goes down in relation to how much you pay for goods and services. It’s called inflation and devaluation of the dollar – a crime of treason against the American people.
So the next time one of your government representatives says the US has never defaulted on its debts, tell them either they are grossly ignorant of monetary history or they’re a damn liar.
#1 As a result of the Seven Years War with France, King George III of England was deeply in debt to the central bankers of England.
#2 In an attempt to raise revenue, King George tried to heavily tax the colonies in America.
#3 In 1763, Benjamin Franklin was asked by the Bank of England why the colonies were so prosperous, and this was his response….
“That is simple. In the colonies we issue our own money. It is called Colonial Script. We issue it in proper proportion to the demands of trade and industry to make the products pass easily from the producers to the consumers.
In this manner, creating for ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power, and we have no interest to pay to no one.”
#4 The Currency Act of 1764 ordered the American Colonists to stop printing their own money. Colonial script (the money the colonists were using at the time) was to be exchanged at a two-to-one ratio for “notes” from the Bank of England.
#5 Later, in his autobiography, Benjamin Franklin explained the impact that this currency change had on the colonies….
“In one year, the conditions were so reversed that the era of prosperity ended, and a depression set in, to such an extent that the streets of the Colonies were filled with unemployed.”
#6 In fact, Benjamin Franklin stated unequivocally in his autobiography that the power to issue currency was the primary reason for the Revolutionary War….
“The colonies would gladly have borne the little tax on tea and other matters had it not been that England took away from the colonies their money, which created unemployment and dissatisfaction. The inability of the colonists to get power to issue their own money permanently out of the hands of George III and the international bankers was the prime reason for the Revolutionary War.”
#7 Gouverneur Morris, one of the authors of the U.S. Constitution, solemnly warned us in 1787 that we must not allow the bankers to enslave us….
“The rich will strive to establish their dominion and enslave the rest. They always did. They always will… They will have the same effect here as elsewhere, if we do not, by (the power of) government, keep them in their proper spheres.”
#8 Unfortunately, those warning us about the dangers of a central bank did not prevail. After an aborted attempt to establish a central bank in the 1780s, the First Bank of the United States was established in 1791. Alexander Hamilton (who had close ties to the Rothschild banking family) cut a deal under which he would support the move of the nation’s capital to Washington D.C. in exchange for southern support for the establishment of a central bank.
#9 George Washington signed the bill creating the First Bank of the United States on April 25, 1791. It was given a 20 year charter.
#10 In the first five years of the First Bank of the United States, the U.S. government borrowed 8.2 million dollars and prices rose by 72 percent.
#11 The opponents of central banking were not pleased. In 1798, Thomas Jefferson said the following….
“I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution – taking from the federal government their power of borrowing."
#12 In 1811, the charter of the First Bank of the United States was not renewed.
#13 One year later, the War of 1812 erupted. The British and the Americans were at war once again.
#14 In 1814, the British captured and burned Washington D.C., but the Americans subsequently experienced key victories at New York and at New Orleans.
#15 The Treaty of Ghent, officially ending the war, was ratified by the U.S. Senate on February 16th, 1815 and was ratified by the British on February 18th, 1815.
#16 In 1816, another central bank was created. The Second Bank of the United States was established and was given a 20 year charter.
#17 Andrew Jackson, who became president in 1828, was determined to end the power of the central bankers over the United States.
#18 In fact, in 1832, Andrew Jackson’s re-election slogan was “JACKSON and NO BANK!”
#19 On July 10th, 1832 President Jackson said the following about the danger of a central bank….
“It is not our own citizens only who are to receive the bounty of our government. More than eight millions of the stock of this bank are held by foreigners… is there no danger to our liberty and independence in a bank that in its nature has so little to bind it to our country? … Controlling our currency, receiving our public moneys, and holding thousands of our citizens in dependence… would be more formidable and dangerous than a military power of the enemy."
#20 In 1835, President Jackson completely paid off the U.S. national debt. He is the only U.S. president that has ever been able to accomplish this.
#21 President Jackson vetoed the attempt to renew the charter of the Second Bank of the United States in 1836.
#22 Richard Lawrence attempted to shoot Andrew Jackson, but he survived. It is alleged that Lawrence said that “wealthy people in Europe” had put him up to it.
#23 The Civil War was another opportunity for the central bankers of Europe to get their hooks into America. In fact, it is claimed that Abraham Lincoln actually contacted Rothschild banking interests in Europe in an attempt to finance the war effort. Reportedly, the Rothschilds were demanding very high interest rates and Lincoln balked at paying them.
#24 Instead, Lincoln pushed through the Legal Tender Act of 1862. Under that act, the U.S. government issued $449,338,902 of debt-free money.
#25 This debt-free money was known as “Greenbacks” because of the green ink that was used.
#26 The central bankers of Europe were not pleased. The following quote appeared in the London Times in 1865….
“If this mischievous financial policy, which has its origin in North America, shall become endurated down to a fixture, then that Government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off debts and be without debt. It will have all the money necessary to carry on its commerce. It will become prosperous without precedent in the history of the world. The brains, and wealth of all countries will go to North America. That country must be destroyed or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe.”
#27 Abraham Lincoln was shot dead by John Wilkes Booth on April 14th, 1865.
#28 After the Civil War, all money in the United States was created by bankers buying U.S. government bonds in exchange for bank notes.
#29 James A. Garfield became president in 1881, and he was a staunch opponent of the banking powers. In 1881 he said the following….
“Whoever controls the volume of money in our country is absolute master of all industry and commerce…and when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate.”
#30 President Garfield was shot about two weeks later by Charles J. Guiteau on July 2nd, 1881. He died from medical complications on September 19th, 1881.
#31 In 1906, the U.S. stock market was setting all kinds of records. However, in March 1907 the U.S. stock market absolutely crashed. It is alleged that elite New York bankers were responsible.
#32 In addition, in 1907 J.P. Morgan circulated rumors that a major New York bank had gone bankrupt. This caused a massive run on the banks. In turn, the banks started recalling all of their loans. The panic of 1907 resulted in a congressional investigation that ended up concluding that a central bank was “necessary” so that these kinds of panics would never happen again.
#33 It took a few years, but the international bankers finally got their central bank in 1913.
#34 Congress voted on the Federal Reserve Act on December 22nd, 1913 between the hours of 1:30 AM and 4:30 AM.
#35 A significant portion of Congress was either sleeping at the time or was already at home with their families celebrating the holidays.
#36 The president that signed the law that created the Federal Reserve, Woodrow Wilson, later sounded like he very much regretted the decision when he wrote the following….
“A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men … [W]e have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world–no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.”
#37 Between 1921 and 1929 the Federal Reserve increased the U.S. money supply by 62 percent. This was the time known as “The Roaring 20s”.
#38 In addition, highly leveraged “margin loans” became very common during this time period.
#39 In October 1929, the New York bankers started calling in these margin loans on a massive scale. This created the initial crash that launched the Great Depression.
#40 Rather than expand the money supply in response to this crisis, the Federal Reserve really tightened it up. #41 In fact, it was reported the the U.S. money supply contracted by eight billion dollars between 1929 and 1933. That was an extraordinary amount of money in those days. Over one-third of all U.S. banks went bankrupt. The New York bankers were able to buy up other banks and all kinds of other assets for pennies on the dollar.
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In any case... The issue at hand seems to be whether or not it is being CONTROLLED...
Believe you me it's being controlled... Always has been, always will be (with central banking regimes where global sized profits from interest payements accrue to so few hands when all is said and done)...
The only way to STOP the control is to do away with central banking altogether (which has been tried NUMEROUS times, across the globe), and there are numerous dead bodies & regime changes to attest for that...
Or ~ the bankers could just walk away on their own when & if, the ponzi reached the point that it was no longer easy to control (we may be nearing that point now)... But even so... In that process, they are still many new schemes that can & will be cooked up to extend the game until the very last minute...
Y'all laugh when I said before that the 'space alien' game has yet to be played...
If you think that was far fetched, think about this... Who in their right minds would have thought that the federal defecit (which was supposedly a balance budget when Clinton left office), is now a situation where the debt ceiling is well past $15T and practically needs to be raised every couple of months?
Obama, in 2006, chastized Bush calling it a "failure of leadership" that the budget ceiling was crashed thru during the Bush years... In Obama's term, of only little more than 3 years now, the ceiling has been raised about a half dozen times (not sure of my math on that but even if it's wrong, it will be soon)...
So ask yourself HOW & WHY, we can accrue so much debt in just over a decade?
Easy... Conjure up a WAR ON TERROR, blow a false housing bubble, crash the markets, consolidate power, pick winners, make THEM 100% whole, and appeal to 'the public' to 'eat your peas' in a time of national need... (Like the WWI 'war bonds' that were your patriotis duty to buy, that FDR [above], basically defaulted on paying back)...
What's worse is that in this instance they've got you by the short hairs because they've used the whole situation to essentially establish a police state... Which means, in the process, they've laid the groundwork for the day that it all collapses (or that too many people get wise), and they need a place to run & hide for awhile and work out a succession plan...
Further ~ they have everybody by the short hairs because peoples habits are too finely mingled with the advantages that come with a fully working society...
Nobody (especially with kids), is going to pull them out of school, take away their iPhones, their internet, their toys, and move to a cabin in the woods... Instead ~ they'll play the game (by staying on the treadmill) day after day because, well, life on a treadmill (with an 80' TV at home, 500 cable channels, sports, good restaurants to go to, sportsbars & frou frous, trips to Vegas & Cancun & all that), is far better than chopping wood in the Appalachians (even if it means that bankers get far wealthier of of YOUR labor without ever having to lift a finger)...
Well, of course, they may have to lift a finger once in a while... You know, to crash a market, raise an interst rate, default on a debt that's stacked up a mile high with derivatives, or phone somebody to mobilize an insurgency somewhere...
The way you will know that IT'S NOT being controlled will be the day that you actually DO wake up in the Appalachians (with an axe in your hand), because you need to be there to survive, because society has broken down...
So that will be the day that you can trade the stock market with COMPLETE CERTAINTY that nothing is being controlled or manipulated...
Last thing (well ~ probably NOT last thing) is this...
If I say "manipulation"... I'm NOT referring to somebody sitting there with a brazillion TV screens in front of them moving every market...
It's not that complicated (especially in an ALGO driven world)...
One need only monitor KEY factors (and the rest, by nature will all churn about and follow suit in due course)...
At this late stage in the game it's really truly mainly a function of liquidity... If there's a shortfall, you print more money, and send it where it needs to go... That's about it... It's like having 12 teenage daughters and at any given moment, one of them is asking you for money for something... What do you do?... You dig down into your pocket to prevent all hell from breaking loose...
(or maybe once you tried to put a stop to it by saying "no", which resulted in being reminded that EVERYONE ELSE got a handout... So instead of having a "sit down" with the whole group, you just play along)...
Again ~ this IRAN issue is very problematic for central banking...
Make no mistake... Iran has nothing to do with nukes... It has everything to do with needing the oil & the fact that Iran is being stubborn about NOT wanting to accept dollars as payment for oil or have anything to do with central banking in general (at least the 'western' version of it)...
Personally ~ I think its all coming to a showdown BECAUSE OF & HAVING TO DO WITH the calendar...
These 'illuminati' types love symbolism... I know it sounds kind of hokey (even to me), but it would be very easy to trigger a global event in conjuction with (all happening in 2012 or thereabouts)...
- the Mayan calendar
- biblical references to 2012
- the Presidential election cycle
- the 2012 London Olympics (funny how that worked out)
- the end of the Fed charter
Frankly ~ I don't know what will play out (& I don't believe even the 'elites' have control)... What the DO have control over (& this could be rather easily done), is to crash the system...
I think the thing to determine is, what time, what place, how, & most importantly, WHAT TO BLAME IT ON... In the end, it's gotta look like it was:
- those rogue Iranians
- or, TEAR OUR WRISTS
- or, a European meltdown
- or making a mess with the Presidential elections (maybe someone will stir up some race riots or something)
- or those friggin "Mayans" & their voodoo...
@CV,
that was quite the novel you wrote there, you guys (you and Hof) are very clearly into philosophy, you start this all with the statement that you can't prove anything and then you move forward into a long "history" of what you fervently believe to be the way things are. I enjoy philosophy too and I respect the lion sized effort you put forth on something that you can't prove.
Now, I’m just curious, wasn't that you that lectured us all here recently about who it is that writes history? If I can get you to admit that you did just say something about this, then it leads me to a simple question based on your accounts above:
what makes you so confident you know the real stories of things that took place in the 1700's, let alone the 1950's or even last week based on your very own remarks about who writes history and who pulls the strings in all mass media? You claim that this is the way it's "always been" so apparently you have knowledge of the entire timeline of man and the control of them right? Isn’t that what you are saying with that statement?
Simply put, where did you get your information and how do you know you haven't been duped/sold that very information?
Did you get it on the web, where clearly the cartel, for lack of a better description, would have control of the information flow....or, did you get it from books that are being published by publishers that the cartel controls? This is why I really laugh at guys like Perkins and all his blather about the courage that we’ll need. On his website he talks about what we can do, including among other things not buying bottled water from the store even if you think the tap water "might not be as safe", same thing about not buying food at the store that is full of preservatives.....yet he sells his very own book with all these warnings in effing Wal Mart! This seems like contradiction 101 to me.
I read the activist post, my simple summary is that it was a quick history that mentioned some central banking and tied it all to how corps run the world now the most powerful corps being the central banks of course, then verified the authors qualifications (to build her case of course) including the fact that her father schooled her in the inner workings of international business from a young age. Read it yesterday but I think the number was 1,800 corps that control roughly 90% of everything with regards to "wealth", this has been a common narrative for years now right? I mean, even your common Joe out there today often knows that the central banks are private banks, the Zietgeist video went viral a long time ago, clients have mentioned it for years now. In fact, it's even worked its way right into the discussions on the MSM, where Dylan Ratigan works, yeah, I said it, where Dylan Ratigan works, and constantly talks about this.
I really don't have any comment about it other than to state that you both seem to believe that in the last 300-400 years, or perhaps longer than that (since its "always been controlled"), a small group has emerged that now basically controls all the collective actions of every human on planet Earth, they do the big stuff and then just let nature take over. If I'm wrong about where you are coming from let me know, thats the conclusion I draw for you both. I also despise central banks and wish them to be abolished, but I don’t get there the same way the two of you do, not even close in fact.
In response to this knowledge that you have obtained I have no idea what Hoffer has done but clearly you revealed your farm, your lack of cell phone ownership so you don’t “carry a tracking device on you”, your exit from paper markets and so on. You have embraced your beliefs fully. Thats fine, to each their own, I’m all about liberty.
For me, I simply disagree with your view of things and my opinion is that I think you both enjoy fitting a good story to an already known outcome to "prove" the way things are, but since we are really talking about philosophy here, there is no point at all in me saying much more, all it will lead to is wheel spinning about our respective beliefs in the way things are. This became evident yesterday when Hof accused me of both too much assumption and logical fallacy, the very same things found in his own posts.
The commentary on gold is especially interesting to me, at screwtapes they have been doing some work that I have been following with great interest especially since they have an author that works directly at the perth mint and he is about to disclose serial number transactions on where all this "physical" is going, supposedly later this month. One thing that seems quite clear to me is that there are some very wealthy parties currently preying on weak minded people that are convinced of things about silver and gold and they are absolutely destroying them in the process. Specifically what Sprott has been doing with PSLV and his commentary about how long it took him to get his silver and why that means there is a shortage. It’s amazing the money he is making selling these stories.
As of now they have only been able to conclude one thing, which is that if gold is in fact being manipulated, something they all currently believe to be entirely false and contradictory to quantified fact/data, that if anything the price of gold is being manipulated to the upside, not the other way around.
I find that hilarious on some level and it certainly gets my own wheels turning toward different theories....., if I were the cartel thats what I'd do too, set the stage for a build up the price of gold and silver from nearly nothing for about a decade, after all, people have flocked to it as money for “5,000 years” so really you are just letting nature run its typical natural course on this front, pepper in some paper money crisis during it and make sure that "events" take place during that time, 9/11, arab spring, and so forth, you know, crash down some of the derivatives that could set off a chain of events, let the public get bold about "knowing for sure that gold is real money" start using your media outlets to advertise the hell out of cash for gold and the fact that paper money never survives..... and then......just wipe them all out after they collectively move enough of their assets out of the paper markets. Paper lives on, but perhaps in new form (which is an “old story” right?)......hell, one could probably even argue they pulled the same game in the 70's and early 80’s on some level.
Anyway, I never meant to wade this deep into this or even get back into posting on this site, I simply responded to what I thought was a ridiculous comment yesterday on the genius of "the bankers" I suppose I’ll have to live with this idea that I’m “in the dark” in thinking that many of the bankers involved with this episode over the last decade were, in fact, idiots.
@ben22
As I'm writing this... I'm going to say that, so far, I've only skimmed the first sentence or two of what you've said (but I intend to real it fully)...
But I'll already say... IN ADVANCE... The my 'novel' (as you described it), is... ADMITTEDLY, my own belief system... I simply offer it out there for anyone to look at and determine for themselves if there's an ounce of truth to it or not...
I'm not saying 'IT IS' this way (or maybe I am saying that), but again, to get into that discussion would be somewhat non sequitur...
What's important, by all practical means is that I, CV, BELIEVE MORE OR LESS THAT IT IS SUCH... In some ways, it's no different in whether someone decides to believe in the tooth fairy or not...
I believe it is that way, because it's the only thing that I've come across in my life that makes sense on so many fronts, & passes over many generations... Basically, for me, it passes 'the smell' test...
Or let me put it to you another way... It is much harder for me to believe that over 200+ years, the world has undergone what it has and that everything was just a coincidence (political assasinations, world wars, financial bubbles, & what have you)...
You are free to believe what you want & I'm not here to shake you from the foundations of your beliefs...
If you want to think that FIAT is the way to go then I'm not here to stop you... If you want to stack up & save $100 bills because you're convinced they'll be able to buy more in the coming DEFLATION... I'm not here to stop you on that either (nor trading it every day in a pool of sharks because you think you might be clever enough to outwit them at their own game)... For fun, here's a nice graphic that shows you what your stack of $100's looks like in the grand scheme of things...
http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/world_debt/world_debt.html
I'm sure all the retirees in the world will be ever so happy to hear the good news about DEFLATION... It means that pretty soon, with theit 'fixed incomes', they'll be able to buy much more stuff than they can buy now... Hell yea... If they live long enough, they'll all become rich... & if some doctors come out and invent a pill that extends peoples lives another 50+ years... We'll ALL get rich living on fixed income entitlements while prices go down due to deleverage, right?
Anyway... I'm going to read the rest of what you wrote now...
For your purposes, just consider my 'novel' a work of fiction (presented SOLELY for entertainment purposes)... I have to manage my life & you have to manage your life...
Just because we believe in different things, doesn't mean we still can't be friends...
CV
also, I wanted to say one more thing about the comment on "deflation trades"
first of all, a trade is just that, a trade. the public has this idea about "investing" which says that an accurate forecast equals profits in your trades. Same thing on the other side, the thinking is that an incorrect forecast equals a losing trade. Both are totally wrong. Being a successful trader and making accurate forecasts have little to do with each other.
The goal of trading is to make money, if you simply depend on your accurate forecasts to do that you'll be hard pressed to win on balance, instead it is much more about how you operate in your trades, you have to carefully plan your entries, learning the art of stop loss placement and risk mgmt and knowing how and when to take profits.
Deflation is an "idea" or a forecast and its not a dead one yet either but of course any deflation trade has probably been a loser if you've continued to hold it, and if you did that it isn't a trade, you get out of losers when they become exactly that by having a process, not by making a new forecast, you leave it up to yourself to come up with a new forecast and what is far more likely being that we are all human is that you'll continue to argue all the reasons you are still right.
I follow any number of market pundits that have been wrong on big forecasts the last few years yet are still profitable because of their trading.
"But I'll already say... IN ADVANCE... The my 'novel' (as you described it), is... ADMITTEDLY, my own belief system... "
CV,
no doubt, I'm real clear on that, thats why you'll see at the bottom I conclude we just have a different philosophy on these things and so we don't need to say much else than that. I can't quantify half the stuff I say either!
and CV,
never once, did I mention a single thing about deflation
so, you know, pointless to bring that up, has nothing to do with what I talked about up there
what you apparently still don't understand is that my views on fiat/"money" and "they way things work" don't change with my views on deflation/inflation
I'm going to edit out 'snippets' of what I read in your posts now...
this:
you both seem to believe that in the last 300-400 years, or perhaps longer than that (since its "always been controlled"), a small group has emerged that now basically controls all the collective actions of every human on planet Earth
I can't speak for Hof, but from my perspective there is an error in your understanding of what I was saying... A SMALL GROUP has NOT 'EMERGED'... It was a small group to begin with and has been there all along... The Red Shield (Rothschilds)...
I'm sure you know that story because it is factual... Mayer Rothschild, basically, a London trader (but more ~ I'm being lazy here)... Anyway, he basically took control of the Bank of England via a trading coup after the 'Battle of Waterloo'... (More or less having a courier get news of the battle results brought to him, he began shorting everything in sight at the LSE & when a panic ensued, he bought the whole thing up and literally BECAME the Bank of England...
Very loosely, the concept behing the movie 'Trading Places' was predicated on the same trick...
The Rothschild family already had the same interests in Frankfurt, and latyer spread out through Europe...
It took them a VERY LONG TIME to get a foothold in America, but finally did... Along the way, they assemble key pieces... Rockefellers, House of Morgan, etc. There are ties to the Lazard family (France), etc...
This is not fiction... It's basically public knowledge (hidden in plain sight)...
Here's who owns the FED:
http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html
& basically the Rothschilds control an even larger part of the Bank of England (England's FED), and through affiliates, the ECB...
last, and then I'll get on with my weekend
do not put words in my mouth about fiat being the "way to go" because you somehow think it helps bolster your arguments, never once have I said those words or anything along those lines. Nice misrepresentation of the reason and rationale for having cash, which, news-flash CV, is still used everywhere!
let the body of evidence over 4 + years now show that I have repeated over and over and over again, and then over and over again some more (apparently to your deaf ears/blind eyes) why people should in fact have a portion of their assets in gold/silver.......
but there you go yelling about PAPER again
gee, thats not old or anything
CV,
what is the point of contention here with what I"m saying in using the word emerged:
emergedpast participle, past tense of e·merge (Verb)
Verb:
Become apparent, important, or prominent: "Philadelphia has emerged as the favorite"; "a world of emerging economic giants".
You just described exactly that:
"Anyway, he basically took control of the Bank of England via a trading coup"
certainly was a similar process to gain the rest of what they have and yes, all public knowledge, well known for a long time. but this group had to "emerge" from somewhere, these things didn't exist on day 0 of earth.....right?
this:
As of now they have only been able to conclude one thing, which is that if gold is in fact being manipulated, something they all currently believe to be entirely false and contradictory to quantified fact/data, that if anything the price of gold is being manipulated to the upside, not the other way around
on the subject of gold, it's hard to really get into an argument because there are so many offshoots (traps), where the discussion may wander...
I'll be as simple as I can...
I care VERY LITTLE about the "price" of gold (because the "price" of gold is denominated in FIAT dollars)... That essentially means gold could be "worth" a brazillion, or it could be "worth" zero...
The issue of gold has nothing to do with PROFITS (or I should say that only a fiat trader really sees it that way)... Instead, gold is an alternative (and has been for more than 5,000 years of recorded history), to fiat (which is sometimes pegged to gold & sometimes not...
FIAT is ultimately a "faith" based system... It works until it doesn't... People tend to believe that if you can redeem it in gold bars, there's more trust, but, over time, if various 'assets' (like stocks, or bonds, or houses, or even tulips) are given the illusion, for periods of time, that they are more valuable (ie. profits can rise faster assuming they are realized in time before the bubble bursts), then gold loses interest...
Gold NEVER loses interest on the part of the elite though... In some ways, the VERY REASON, that central banks exist is as an organized way to confiscate gold over very long timespans... It's done on the backs of labor... NOT JUST MINERS... Sure, those too, but really on all the industrial activity that goes on as life & technology progress...
Interest is collected, more loans are made, governments get larger, inflation nudges along, and the CENTRAL BANKS get their cut every step of the way because of taxes collected... There were no income taxes in the US before the Fed Res... Moreover, a 'millionaire' in the early 1900's would have possessed roughly 50,000 ounces of gold (at $20.37)... A 'millionaire' today is wondering if they can retire with that amount with cost of living increases...
Remember that all this interest paid to central banks winds up in the hands of a few families... Audit the Fed and you'd probably find an inconsequential amount of gold...
It's stored around the world in Rothschild vaults... THE REAL STUFF...
They'll do anything they can to keep the ponzi going, but when it all blows up... They still have the gold (& they'll be back when the time is right to start it all up again)...
The BIGGEST PROBLEM for them now (in keeping the fiat ponzi alive), are unserviceable debts, coupled with the huge risk that cheap oil is becoming more scarce...
Arabs & Persians don't want dollars anymore for their oil, they want gold... & that presents a big problem for the United States...
right now, it can be said, as fact, that there is no (as in ZERO) disconnect between the paper price of gold and its physical price
whether or not there will be in the future is anyone's guess, but today, there is simply no truth in the idea that they are disconnected, gold is just as faith based as fiat as "money", give me a break, 6,000 years of people rubbing the precious
and sure CV, we can be friends, but am I interested in traveling down this path where you post the word fiat in every other sentence and blah blah blah blah about vaults and what the arabs want
absolutely not
btw,
that patriot link is from information from the Fed in 1976, should probably be updated, seems way off in the flow chart at this point
pretty interesting site this patriot link
the one where they have the 1995 "The Fed and the Financial Stability of the US Government"
you can read a huge rant about how the Fed was raising interest rates and thus mortgage payments hurting the American working family!
how they meet in secret to make these rate changes with no oversight by the government and look what they are doing to us with these rate hikes, evil bankers!
CV,
you also love to discuss ponzi schemes
have you ever considered naturally occurring ponzi schemes and how they develop, as an example you can read about these in Shillers book Irrational Exuberance
no control group needed but there are amplification mechanisms that people create themselves , all that is required is human interaction
do you reject his theory out of hand?
@ben
I don't care whether or not a control group is needed or not to preside over a "ponzi"
A ponzi is a ponzi whether it it is controlled or not...
I'm only saying that FIAT currency matches that distinction because it is a system predicated on an exponential growth curve...
An exponential growth curve cannot exist indefinitely on a planet with finite resources...
Human population (to perpetuate the fiat system) runs into physical restraints (especially with regards to food & energy, & of course, the ROI of those)...
Unless you can find a way to create free energy (that has no ill side effects)...
I'm sure you learned about the "Rule of 70" in business school (as it applies to compounded interest)...
I'm going to copy and paste something here that I read once... I apologize for not being able to credit the right source...
But it mostly explains why the average person cannot fathom about what I mention when I refer to the FIAT PONZI...
For those who can understand, somehow, integrals, this shows the problem between PAYING the debt and PAYMENT of the debt:
Integral_from_1_to_0(xx)dx = some nice tricks here done by Bernoulli = 1 - 1/22 + 1/33 - 1/44 + 1/55 - . . . = 0.78343 . . .
Integral(xx)dx = does not have a closed solution (plainly said undefined or may be, just for fun, 1/(Z)
Note the BIG difference: one of them is solvable ( think politics, economic policy, professional money distributing people taking decisions - all of them can be defined as Short Time Dependant Variables - STDV), in DEFINED "time" frame.
Without a given, a WELL DEFINED time frame, we have a system crash = undefined.
So this is the problem we are ALL facing. Very few people look even 5 years ahead. Not to speak 10 - 20, forget about 50 or 100.
When one start thinking in THAT extended time frame EVERYTHING changes.
A note aside. Tesla was one person that I know of, that has thought about what the world will be facing in the future. Of course, he was thinking about more important problems than money. He was thinking about ENERGY. The underlying force for ALL living systems, economy is one example ( a human made ) of a such system.
120 years ago, Tesla was able to foresee that the MAJOR problem humanity will face in the future is SUSTAINABLE energy sources.
And here you have it in ONE word the major problem we have.
If only we could start thinking in undefined than in defined integrals, using the analogy above.
But, hey human life by itself is in a defined integral. And as we all know THE HARDEST THING is to think outside of one's inherited environment.
"I don't care whether or not a control group is needed or not to preside over a "ponzi""
Why are you avoiding my question?
"A ponzi is a ponzi whether it it is controlled or not..."
Well no kidding, thats exactly my point, they dont have to be controlled to exist.
You entire thesis though is predicated upon the few families that control the Federal Reserve bank and what they desire. I'm asking a simple question of whether or not you believe people (the public, the masses) can create bubbles without them (a central bank) even existing due to naturally occurring ponzis?
Can such interaction overcome the desires of the central banks?
Surely you believe that an organized mechanism against the central banks can overcome them. If for example everyone adopted your lifestyle, and got of the treadmill so to speak, they (the central banks) would be screwed right?
To say it another way, a ponzi can occur with or without a Central Bank but if a central bank exists can a naturally occurring ponzi take place and overcome their plans and thus lead them in another direction, at least temporarily?
Do you deny that they can?
on this:
that patriot link is from information from the Fed in 1976, should probably be updated, seems way off in the flow chart at this point
ror- don't be supercilious... Who the hell cares if the tentacles of the flow chart have changed...
Do you REALLY think that any of the handful of the people at the top (which you could count on one hand), have changed or divested?
Really?
its the rule of 72
and of course people don't "look out 100 years" they'll be dead......
and the reason they can't even look out five years might be what Shafir and Tversky described as the phenomenon of nonconsequentialist reasoning, characterized by an inability to think through the elementary conclusions one would draw in the future if hypothetical events were to occur.
but, does the act of thinking ahead help you solve the probability riddle of WHEN it is likely these things we are discussing are going occur, if at all?
I would say no.
wowza, deep theories
just make $$$ and have fun while doing so
-- Whitney (RIP) did.
WB B22
CV,
no, I don't care about the tentacles at all, though, I'd have thought that you would, you know, in putting together your thesis, it would seem since these "people at the top" are humans, as I've not yet seen you claim they are alien, all die eventually, and therefore they must be replaced, I suppose they probably inbreed. Now tell me, do think over history that there have been instances where the sons and daughters of certain men and women did not hold their parents views on the ways of the world? Or, do you rather think that while the faces may change at the top, for hundreds of years now their mission has remained exactly the same, and will always be this way?
I mean, why would you base your commentary on information from a 1976 flow chart, as a more simple ?
yeah, whitney, just like amy winehouse, wasn't even the least bit surprised when I found out last night
oh, forgot to mention, oil is th e new gold, has been for many years, you already knew this tho, and if not, you just didn't know you knew.
also, rule of 70, pretty sure that is more commonly used in biology rather than business discussion
rule of 72 is on the business side for compound interest, I'm certain of that
Here I thought Mr. Wizards beard was the new gold
ya heard?
I did hear Mr. Wizard has a gold plated printing press, or was it platinum, not sure, but I do know he needs oil to keep it running.
I'm really trying to answer you as best as I can interpret your questions...
OK here:
Surely you believe that an organized mechanism against the central banks can overcome them. If for example everyone adopted your lifestyle, and got of the treadmill so to speak, they (the central banks) would be screwed right?
I apologize for, perhaps, not understanding your question... If we were communicating face to face it would probabaly be easier & more expedient... But I'll do my best...
You said "organized mechanism" (which I presume to be as complicated as a #OWS on mega steroids or as simple as Ron Paul)... Sure, "theoretically" any organized mechanism COULD topple central banks... & yes ~ let's take it to the extreme... If everyone were to max out their credit cards (buying gold & silver bullion on the open market), stop paying taxes & stop paying bills all at the same time, the central banks would face a problem)... But I'm also saying that the fact that that is a "theortical possibility" probably has the same odds of happening as the idea that "theoretically", if you're in a traffic jam and everyone would hit the accellerator at precisely the same time to precisely the same acceleration curve, traffic would start to move again...
It's only a vague curiosity for me how long the central banks last, or if they do at all... I'm simply saying that WHO PROFITS from central bank operations have already made enormous amounts of wealth for themselves are are probably poised to come out on the other side, and remain as elites, whether the central banks dissolve or don't...
To say it another way, a ponzi can occur with or without a Central Bank but if a central bank exists can a naturally occurring ponzi take place and overcome their plans and thus lead them in another direction, at least temporarily?
Do you deny that they can?
I guess this is kind of a run on to the first part...
All I can say is that IMO, any "naturally occurring ponzi" would have to be ginormous to overcome the central banking system, simply because if you control a money supply, it's easy to bribe small collections of key individuals in powerful places of politics & industry...
Now ~ I also mentioned IRAN before... I believe IRAN, in this instance, would qualify as that "fly in the ointment" (because clearly they are not interested in playing the "western" game...
Russia & China are basically in the same boat... They are different, however, in that they are at the point in development that it is possible to grow internally by selling their products to westerners (Russia = gas & oil to Europe, China = cheaply manufactured toys & gadgets)...
It's also the "Rule of 70"...
here's whats funny
the rule of 70 works better than 72 when the growth rate is 3% or less
so you know it figures that in biz school you learn the rule of 72 b/c of the ole "the stock market averages 8% per year" saying
maybe by 2017 when all those cycles come together they'll be using the rule of 70 in business school, apparently the worst decade in US history hasn't led them to adopt that just yet though
but, does the act of thinking ahead help you solve the probability riddle of WHEN it is likely these things we are discussing are going occur, if at all?
No ~ it most certainly does not...
But here's the thing... (& now we clearly move into the realm of 'philosophy')...
Assuming that I believe that the system operates (as I've extensively outlined above ~ whether it is true or not is not important, only that I BELIEVE it to be that way)...
Anyway, for shits & grins, let's say I'm right... Then I have to ask myself am I philosophically aligned or opposed to a system that operates that way...
It so happens that I'm AGAINST it...
Now I realize that that brings along a whole new set of arguments (& hypocrises)... For example: I could say "burn it all down & let people fend for themselves like true libertarians"... Undoubtedly, that may cause much pain & suffering & probably many deaths... So if you weight that against maintaining the system (& society)... Which is basically glorified slavery, (only we have it better than slaves from the past)...
Well... it might be hard for some people to choose... & who is around to judge whether one person is right & the other is wrong...
I believe in God... (or more precisely I believe that a "superior part" of sould exist...
When I weigh the two... slavery vs. self sufficiency, I'm compelled to think that if there is a God, the ultimate expression would be that somehow people, collectively, manage to work and play together without enslaving others so that they might live a little better...
So it goes against my 'spiritual' nature to be part of something that I wouldn't condone...
Others are free to live and think differently...
@ben (2:10)
ror - astute observation...
& probably 100% correct... NOW you're thinking like a blue blood market manipulator would...
:-)
"All I can say is that IMO, any "naturally occurring ponzi" would have to be ginormous to overcome the central banking system"
there are examples, I think, such as "new era" economic thinking which we can see many examples of globally and in the states.
@ben
I'd have thought that you would, you know, in putting together your thesis, it would seem since these "people at the top" are humans, as I've not yet seen you claim they are alien, all die eventually, and therefore they must be replaced, I suppose they probably inbreed. Now tell me, do think over history that there have been instances where the sons and daughters of certain men and women did not hold their parents views on the ways of the world? Or, do you rather think that while the faces may change at the top, for hundreds of years now their mission has remained exactly the same, and will always be this way?
I mean, why would you base your commentary on information from a 1976 flow chart, as a more simple
Now these are some easier questions for me to answer directly (because they involve less theory)...
1. NO ~ I don't believe they are 'aliens' (ror)
2. It should not be very hard to understand that families are about the only units that pass the test of time (especially when there is generational wealth to be passed on)... Americans have little concept of this because there is little TRUE generational wealth in our culture (or maintained on our shores)
3. 'Inbreeding' (among these dynasties) has gone on for as long as there is recorded time (from the Pharoahs of Egypt, to the Roman Emperors, to the Hapsburg Royal Family)... There is a curious case regarding the Hapsburgs themselves who seemed to take the concept of 'inbreeding' too far as to have caused genetic deformities &/or mental retardations... Most European royal families "kept it in the family" so to speak by having their sons & daughters marry other royalty to preserve the bloodlines (of course then once marriage was consecrated, thet were free to engage in midget tranny porn games)...
5. I absolutely believe that there have been rebellious sons & daughters that naturally occur... I've even heard numerous stories, but nobody in particular comes to mind because it's not that interesting to me other than to know that it happens...
6. I'd also say that, at this point, we're talking about RIDICULOUS amounts of wealth... Forget about Warren Buffett, or Carlos Slim being the wealthiest guys... Combined ~ they couldn't even carry the water of the real players...
there are examples, I think, such as "new era" economic thinking which we can see many examples of globally and in the states.
I have little doubt that eventually a new system will supplant the current one...
If I were making bets in Vegas though... I'd wager on the CURRENT SYSTEM being milked for it's last nickle before the new system comes along...
IOW ~ I firmly believe the current system will collapse BY DESIGN... That's why I think it truly remarkable to see what they have managed to get away with in the past 4 years... It's staggering... People should have REVOLTED long ago, yet they seem content to just be entertained in the process...
Look at the INTEREST PAYMENTS on this chart...
http://usdebtclock.org/current-rates.html
& that's just the US alone on a standard trajectory (NOT log based trajectory)... It does NOT even include all the same interest payments that are being brought to bear on Europe (which EXCEED those of the US)...
This is all money funnelled straight through central banks and into the hands of the few shareholders of those CB's...
Seriously ~ oil (petrodollars), are the only thing that can blow this up at this point because to keep it going they just have to continue to print massive amounts of new debt to retiire the old debt and keep every other plate spinning...
The day that those 'dollars' come home to roost will be the day the game ends...
Oil is the key...
McB,
you're quick to conflate cv--, and I..
though, here:
"...In some ways, the VERY REASON, that central banks exist is as an organized way to confiscate gold over very long timespans... It's done on the backs of labor... NOT JUST MINERS... Sure, those too, but really on all the industrial activity that goes on as life & technology progress...
Interest is collected, more loans are made, governments get larger, inflation nudges along, and the CENTRAL BANKS get their cut every step of the way because of taxes collected... There were no income taxes in the US before the Fed Res... Moreover, a 'millionaire' in the early 1900's would have possessed roughly 50,000 ounces of gold (at $20.37)... A 'millionaire' today is wondering if they can retire with that amount with cost of living increases..."
is something I, definitely, agree with..
~Funny, so did Thomas Edison & Henry Ford (among many others)..
~~~
also, you raise a very Interesting point, here:
"...here's whats funny
the rule of 70 works better than 72 when the growth rate is 3% or less
so you know it figures that in biz school you learn the rule of 72 b/c of the ole "the stock market averages 8% per year" saying
maybe by 2017 when all those cycles come together they'll be using the rule of 70 in business school, apparently the worst decade in US history hasn't led them to adopt that just yet though..."
and, to, another of, your points: ~"'History you can find @WMT.."
Yes, much of the 'Mulch' (that we believe to be 'Education'/'History') has been Adulterated..
~~
cv-- puts 'Stock' in "Who?", though, even, he says : "...Well... it might be hard for some people to choose... & who is around to judge whether one person is right & the other is wrong...
I believe in God... (or more precisely I believe that a "superior part" of sould exist...
When I weigh the two... slavery vs. self sufficiency, I'm compelled to think that if there is a God, the ultimate expression would be that somehow people, collectively, manage to work and play together without enslaving others so that they might live a little better...
So it goes against my 'spiritual' nature to be part of something that I wouldn't condone...
Others are free to live and think differently..."
...
as, I think, 'We' have discussed before, You face a tremendous difficulty..
You are, actually, on the 'front lines', interfacing w/ "John E"+ his Fiat Dreams--while understanding (some of?) the Nature of Ideas, like 'real inflation rates'/'real unemployment rates'/'the fallacy of EMH'---as, but, a few examples..
also, you make, another, good Insight, with: "...As of now they have only been able to conclude one thing, which is that if gold is in fact being manipulated, something they all currently believe to be entirely false and contradictory to quantified fact/data, that if anything the price of gold is being manipulated to the upside, not the other way around.
I find that hilarious on some level and it certainly gets my own wheels turning toward different theories....., if I were the cartel thats what I'd do too, set the stage for a build up the price of gold and silver from nearly nothing for about a decade, after all, people have flocked to it as money for “5,000 years” so really you are just letting nature run its typical natural course on this front, pepper in some paper money crisis during it and make sure that "events" take place during that time, 9/11, arab spring, and so forth, you know, crash down some of the derivatives that could set off a chain of events, let the public get bold about "knowing for sure that gold is real money" start using your media outlets to advertise the hell out of cash for gold and the fact that paper money never survives..... and then......just wipe them all out after they collectively move enough of their assets out of the paper markets. Paper lives on, but perhaps in new form (which is an “old story” right?)......hell, one could probably even argue they pulled the same game in the 70's and early 80’s on some level..."
I tend to agree..now, "High" Au & Ag prices are, like in the late-70's, being used to 'strip-mine' Hard Asset Wealth from what's left of the American 'middle class' + being used as a diversion--from 'Real Assets'--for those looking for 'diversification' from 'Paper'..
also, look at the 'Crushing' that 'Miners' (Stocks) took over the last ~year and a half..
but, at the EOD, the current Schema is predicated upon Fraud + Theft..
and, anything, in Total, that grows from such is going to be ~'problematical'..
peep should Wonder..
there was a serious Reason why 'the Southerners' made it Illegal to Teach the 'Blacks' to Read..
there is a serious Reason why our, current, 'Historical'(Educational) Narrative is so narrow..
AAIP
@AAIP
So many side topics get brought up when you approach the topic as a whole...
For example:
on miners
Personally ~ even if I thought gold or silver were going to infinity, I don't think it's a prudent idea to own shares in mining companies... That's a concept that 'traders' (or, folks that hand their money over to traders, ostensibly to, "make money") have difficulty grasping...
It's part of the 50+ or 100+ year thinking process (which is another way to say "out of the box")... My thought is that, according to my overall view (& if I'm correct), if the scenarios were to occur that would start sending gold vertical, then immediately all mines & companies would likely become nationalized (for 'national security', or some BS like that)... Furthermore, if all you own are paper shares, of companies, you really own nothing after the paper itself becomes invalid...
If you don't hold gold in your hands, it isn't yours...
on education
That's funny isn't it? The harder I see the MSM & Wall St. investment crowd pushing the idea that gold is a horrible investment, the MORE it assures me that they understand that the gig is up with regards to paper...
I've all but completely divorced myself from trying to find the paper spot prices for these things... I told you the story where on several occasions (when silver was kicking down in the mid 20's in December ~ that I was unable to find a local coin dealer in the area that would sell me any even though they had stock on hand... But they would have gladly bought if I had some for sale)...
Anyway ~ the more I see what appears to be a propaganda campaign against PM's, the more I'm convinced the game is coming closer to it's conclusion...
~~~~~~
I put this up a few weeks ago & I'll put it up again... This is the best thing (to me), that I've seen to BE VERY AFRAID of the ticking time clock with regards to debt...
-continued-
You're correct, except you imply there's a maximum. There isn't and things are worse than meets the eye.
A classic sign of exponential growth is a doubling over some roughly constant period, aka N = X^(2t/T) where T is the time interval to double and t is the time we're at. For most processes, if you look at the exponent itself, it usually doesn't change (much) as the interval is roughly constnat, but the magnitude of the results doubles over the same roughly constant interval. And that repeated doubling over time turns into the insane, out-of-control numbers we're used to from exponential progressions. So, it'd be a fucking disaster if it were even this. But...
Tyler's graph has an offset Y axis and truncated X axis. Usually when this trick i used it's to make something look more exponential than it really is. In this case, it makes it look less exponential. Look at a 10-year or 50-year chart in constant dollars and it's pretty concerning. I eyeballed the long-term chart and it looks like we're doubling the debt every five years right now.
Now, that's bad, but what's terrifying is that a decade ago, the doubling interval was 15 years. In other words, not only are we dealing with an exponentially growing debt, we're dealing with an exponentially growing where the exponent that determines growth is changing, and as a result, the doubling time is decreasing.
If a system were simply accelerating it's speed -- it'd have a constant exponent describing it's speed equation. In the case of the US debt, the acceleration of the debt itself is accelerating, and the time interval to doubling in shortening. I don't think there's enough data to determine if the rate of interval shortening is linear or exponential, but if it's a linear case, we hit essentially infinite growth (aka dollar collapse to zero) in approximately 6 years. The scary little uptick at the very end of the chart could indicate exponentially growing acceleration. That means it happens sooner.
Nothing real can go to infinity, the charts are telling us something will change (and likely break down significantly) in five years at most. If the debt growth acceleration is itself exponential, the doubling interval will likely to be measured in months within a year. The fact that real markets aren't heading up on afterburners just shows that everyone is clueless and/or active intervention is keeping it from happening... but for how long?
Here's a formula that some may find instructive as to how the laws of physics can demonstrate how such things pan out:
v(f) = v(o) + at
[Final velocity is equal to initial velocity plus the acceleration times time]
N = X^(2t/T) = WW3
...another thing I didn't mention before (but have to chuckle about is as follows is this)...
ben called me out "rightfully so" about SOURCES... He basically used my own tactic AGAINST me (because he was 'correct' in bring up the fact that I'd made a 'to do' about it [vis-a-vis the Ghandi material])...
~~~~~~~
Anyway... In my own defense (with regards to the 'timeline' which I published above &/or if anything I published is credible)... Well, I'm not going to go over it with a fine tooth comb but:
- There were, in fact "Continental Scripts"
- Founding fathers were, in fact, quoted many times discussing the evils of central bankers
- George Washington did, in fact, sign the bill that created the First Bank of the United States in 1791
- It's charter was 20 years (expiring in 1811)
- There was, in fact a War of 1912 (you sing a song called the "Star Spangled Banner" whose words were written by a guy named Francis Scott Key at Fort McHenry in Baltimore Harbor on the night of one such bombardment.
- I can assure you, having lived near Baltimore, that Ft. McHenry exists
- There is, in fact, something called the Treaty of Ghent (which officially ended that was & was signed in 1815)
- The 2nd bank of the US was, in fact, created in 1816
- There were, to the best of my knowledge, presidents named Andrew Jackson & Abraham Lincoln
- It is well documented that Jackson hated bankers
- There was a thing called the Civil War... Right where I live now, I can walk around on any given day with a metal dector and pick up fragments from that out of the earth...
- Lincoln did try to go to bankers to get money, didn't like the interest rates, then created greenbacks
- Lincoln is, in fact, dead
- So is Garfield (but I suppose I might have to study a little more to verify that he was actually a US President (otherwise Obama is really #43 ~ which may be the case because he's just like George Bush)...
- There was a stock market crash in 1907
- There was a Jeckyl Island meeting
- The Fed was established in the dead of night on December 22, 1913
- JFK did sign Executive order 11110 in June, 1963
- He is, in fact, dead
- The Vietnam War did escalate after a mysterious false flag incident in the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964, (which had resembled many false flags in the past such as "the USS Maine", "the Lusitania", "Pearl Harbor", "Operation Northwoods", & PERHAPS 9/11)
- there was extensive nano-thermite found in the WTC wreckage
- nano-thermite is not known to be able to be produced in caves in and around the Kyber Pass
- 3 buildings did come down in NYC on 9/11/11 (there are extensive videos which document the precise nature of the demolition of WTC7 which was not allegedly hit by any planes
- no aircraft engines or black boxes were ever found in 4 downed planes, because everything was supposedly vaporized, they they conveniently found in tact Arab passports (which was a stroke of pure luck)
~~~~~
I guess I'm just a guy with a vivid imagination...
war of 1812 (above)
cv--
re: 'Miners'..right. it is, merely, more 'Paper'..
this: "...if the scenarios were to occur that would start sending gold vertical, then immediately all mines & companies would likely become nationalized (for 'national security', or some BS like that)... Furthermore, if all you own are paper shares, of companies, you really own nothing after the paper itself becomes invalid..."
is Incontrovertible..
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/incontrovertible
and, All 'Systems' predicated on 'Exponential Growth' are 'Frauds'(will Fail)..
also, in regard to your 'Timeline' (@17:58) it wouldn't matter if you 'purchased' it @ WMT, it's, still, True..
AAIP
but, thankfully, there are 'more inportant'-things to be 'concerned' with..
http://search.yippy.com/search?query=Facebook%27s+1.6+Billion+Dollar+Woman&tb=sitesearch-all&v%3Aproject=clusty
as, but, one, of myriad, possibilities..
ibid.
@AAIP,
I think I've got a decent handle on ...."while understanding (some of?) the Nature of Ideas, like 'real inflation rates'/'real unemployment rates'/'the fallacy of EMH'-"
which is why I can point out at least one of the potential flaws in the comments about a millionaire in the early 1900's compared to today such as the idea that one's retirement goals are as much as a function of what they have saved as they are the lifestyle they desire.
Certainly, if someone has a million dollars today and they wish to live off of say $4,500 per month they should probably be fine "over the long run", otoh, if they desired $10,000 per month, that could be an entirely different story and likely a problem. Given the materialism present in our culture today that was not as likely present then this is one contributing factor as to why people haven't saved enough, their eyes are far bigger than their savings accounts. This is to say nothing of one of the reasons driving worry today for retirees about how long retirement assets will last, rather than inflation, it is: life expectancy, which is an unknown for everyone, while expenses, in so many ways, can be under your own control, especially discretionary expenses, which is still where I witness an extremely large portion of the household budget being dedicated to.
@CV,
"That's funny isn't it? The harder I see the MSM & Wall St. investment crowd pushing the idea that gold is a horrible investment..."
I would argue that over the last decade that the exact opposite of what you just said is taking place on Wall St. I could point out for example how Bobby P loves to discuss when he was bullish in Barron's on some expert panel in 1999 about gold and he was the ONLY one bullish while last year he attended a large investment conference with a bunch of big wall street names and he was the only person at it that was bearish on gold. To use a blanket statement like he would, everyone (including Wall St.) hated gold at $200, but they friggen love it at $1,700.
I could just as easily point out some basic personal experience since my career has almost coincided exactly with the run-up in gold prices and so I've seen internally the change in attitude toward it:
when I started my job we were taught how to use this silly "allocationmaster" software that placed client portfolio's on the MPT efficient frontier, it was widely advised at the time that the "gold" asset class should be eliminated from the model and you override the % allocation to zero, gold was "risky" I remember hearing in one of my early classes. Today you cannot sit in a large mutual fund company presentation without being told that commods, gold/oil, whatever... are now a must have allocation in a portfolio. My company holds a weekly "alternative asset" class conference call to discuss exactly this. Simply put, none of that existed 10 years ago.
The ETF world is another obvious example of Wall Street very much encouraging the precious metals trades, to say nothing of the various hedge funds that have popped up that solely operate in this space, such as the John Paulson gold fund.
Even some of the largest houses, such as PIMCO call gold a must have today. Just last week El Erian was in CNBC discussing gold and oil as must have asset classes, just as he laid out in his book a few years back When Markets Collide. PIMCO of course is going to capitalize on this with new product offerings, they've been working on it for years.
Or, as another example on the groundfloor, I have no way to quantify this but I never remember clients coming to me early on saying "I read gold was a good investment"....it happens once a week to me now. This is especially the case when it comes to owning physical gold which nobody used to ask about, and many people do now.
As for your story about the local dealers, fine, but of course, you could have easily purchased at the perth mint, or any number of places, your locality does not represent the world at that period of time, just a fact. Granted, you would have had higher shipment fees as a result, but if you truly wanted to buy at those low prices there was a way for you to do so.
whats your take on that? I have a hard time agreeing that Wall St. is pushing really hard some message that people should not buy gold, I will grant you that grandpa Buffett is out saying this constantly and as an "expert" it certainly will influence some people that want to "free ride" and agree that if he said it, it must be true.
@ben (6:35)
I completely see what you're saying & furthermore I have no way of walking in your shoes, or sitting at your office desk and dealing with the people you deal with on a day to day basis & I have NO DOUBT that you speak with authenticity...
In my defense... I speak more about the rhetoric that spouts from the lips of the Bernanke's, Warren Buffets, et al of the world... who have, at times referred to it as a "barbarous relic" and in fact denied its use as money...
CNBC furthers this blather with almost a non-stop shill parade (or at best, makes its best attempt to marginalize it & banish it to the wilderness of a trading outpost...
So in aggregate (because a Fed Chairman, a major media business channel, & 'Saint Warren') who they fawn over day & night are the sources that the AVERAGE JOE probably draws opinions from... I'd say that the balance (in perception) falls to the side that people are constantly & subliminally given the message to ignore it...
Coupled with that is the NON-STOP PARADE of the glory of the stock market...
Good God... CNBC is nothing but a stock market rah-rah section...
Or let me put it to you another way... Go out and do a test on the street... Ask random people how many know who Warren Buffett or Jim Cramer is... Then ask the same person who Sprott is...
That's my point...
McB,
@ 18:35
note, I was ~saying, earlier..:"...I tend to agree..now, "High" Au & Ag prices are, like in the late-70's, being used to 'strip-mine' Hard Asset Wealth from what's left of the American 'middle class' + being used as a diversion--from 'Real Assets'--for those looking for 'diversification' from 'Paper'..."
to you point: "....Today you cannot sit in a large mutual fund company presentation without being told that commods, gold/oil, whatever... are now a must have allocation in a portfolio. My company holds a weekly "alternative asset" class conference call to discuss exactly this. Simply put, none of that existed 10 years ago.
The ETF world is another obvious example of Wall Street very much encouraging the precious metals trades, to say nothing of the various hedge funds that have popped up that solely operate in this space, such as the John Paulson gold fund..."
ibid.
This is a non starter for me...
The ETF world is another obvious example of Wall Street very much encouraging the precious metals trades
~~~~
All 'financial people' ever want to do is sell you something... ANYTHING... If they were selling 'bottled air' and thought they could create an ETF for it, they would...
Pushing people into paper ETF's (because there is a lot of attention drawn in crisis times) is a no-brainer...
Whats hideous though is that those are paper markets... People THINK they're getting their exposure to PM's but all they're getting is exposure to is PAPER (that has the world GOLD attached to it)...
Whatever GLD supposedly has in its bullion banks is already spoken for... In a crisis, the GLD owners will be vaporized...
Ask the MF Global clients...
on this...
As for your story about the local dealers, fine, but of course, you could have easily purchased at the perth mint, or any number of places, your locality does not represent the world at that period of time, just a fact
~~~~
I suppose you missed it, but I made a point about that very thing a few weeks ago...
The big problem with ORDERING PM's is that it creates a paper trail...
Theoretically, if TSHTF someone does not want to be involved in a paper trail...
"...to you point..."
to your point..
Weekly 3LB Update 2/10/12
"So in aggregate (because a Fed Chairman, a major media business channel, & 'Saint Warren') who they fawn over day & night are the sources that the AVERAGE JOE probably draws opinions from"
no doubt, there is some influence as a result of those things
we could have an interesting discussion though, I would propose that people act more on personal conversations than they do television. There are a few sources that present evidence of this. I admit television is a powerful medium but there is not a conversation there and instead a one way narrative so its power to force action on the part of the viewer may be limited compared to personal interaction.
You might be familiar with the 1995 story of the secretary at IBM that photocopied some docs about IBM's secret takeover of Lotus, that was supposed to happen on June 5. Her husband sold beepers and she apparently only told him. On June 2 it is said he told a co-worker who bought shares 18 minutes later and another friend that was a computer tech who then called other people. By June 5 there were 25 people in total that had invested a large sum of money based on this tip. Including a pizza chef, an electrical engineer, a bank executive, a dairy wholesaler, a former schoolteacher, a gynecologist, an attorney, and four stockbrokers (NY Daily news 5/27/99 "Mess of an INvest: Little People in Big Trouble with 1.3 million scam")
This might be evident today in the rise of the internet blogs that discuss gold as the "only way" and entirely ignore any message on the mainstream media. The growth in such sites over the last couple years is likely very high, but I don't know that for sure.
I would even submit that the idea that one should not pay any attention to the mainstream media is rapidly growing in popularity.
"...The big problem with ORDERING PM's is that it creates a paper trail..."
to say Nothing of the fact that 'Perth Mint' is ~half a world away..
or, for anything else, you know, that in 'Times of Crises', Shipping is never perturbed..
ibid.
we could have an interesting discussion though, I would propose that people act more on personal conversations than they do television
All I have to go by are the people that I converse with in everyday life... That mainly includes... My family > A bunch of friends that I hardly talk about this kind of stuff to > golf club friends that I often talk about this stuff to > & the people at the gym most I don't talk about it to, but some yes...
When I crunch all of the above together I can probably accurately say that more than 80% of them tend to follow what's said by a Bernanke, and/or still think CNBC is credible... It's taken me a great deal of effort to convince them otherwise...
"I would even submit that the idea that one should not pay any attention to the mainstream media is rapidly growing in popularity"
I would agree with that assessment very much... In a couple of years I'll bet that almost all trust in MSM outlets will have vanished (& that we'll also start an acceleration process in reaching that point)...
People are starting to wake up & smell the coffee...
I know my 2nd statement seemed to contradict the first one there...
What I basically mean is that for a long time, most of these peoples opinioned seemed to be hard wired...
They just seem to be coming around now as we speak... I really think the whole OBAMA thing is having to do with it... Not to blame him specifically, but it's impossible for them to look around and actually SEE that what's being pumped on TV is not actually what's going on... They're starting to become un-tethered...
As they do... the pace will increase... rapidly...
whoa. missed all this back and forth this weekend....need to go through all this now....
...practically on cue...
cool charts on FED assets & policy maneuvers over the past 100 years...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-charting-federal-reserves-assets-1915-2012
CV,
given the powerful adversaries you discuss at length above, do you really honestly think that "not creating a paper trail" is really going to make one bit of a difference if things play out as you see them?
@Andy T
All that's really interesting is the Whitney Houston stuff...
@ben22 (7:53)
I can't really say... All I know is that I've spent a lot of time thinking of a lot of variables that the average person wouldn't comprehend in a million years...
I've come to the conclusion that NOTHING is INFALLIBLE...
...but every little step that you might take (frivolous or not) is one more thing that might improve your chances...
It's kind of like someone asking "Who packed my chute" (before jumping out of an airplane)...
In a way, DOES IT REALLY make a difference?
Great exchange on that linked article... This says a lot here...
Sockeye
So, basically, the Fed IS the economy.
reply
trav7777
no...but it is making things appear nominally profitable which aren't.
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