Morning Audibles 6.21.10 - Many Congrats

Before we get started with the weeks activities, CV wants to shout out particular congrats to mcHappy (becoming a father on Fathers Day), and BinT (on the announcement that he's becoming a GRANDFATHER)...

So forget about silly STOCKS are behaving... At least we all know there are a few things out there working as nature intended them to!

On Saturday, we received news that China was going to relax the peg to the dollar... Naturally, equity futures are soaring on this announcement... How long it lasts (or even if it is warranted in the first place is a different topic)...



I read all the headlines from the various sources and it's mind boggling the "justifications" that the POM POM girls make...

If you desire or seek the entire cornucopia of comedy, you'll have to search around and find the articles yourselves (most of them have "China" & "Yuan" in the headlines)... Here are the most agreed upon reasons that tell you why the DOW is now back on a path to 36,000...

The US will be able to sell more goods to China...

(Now that the "value" of FoxConn employees wages will now be worth about 36 cents an hour instead of 34 on a FOREX purchasing scale, they'll all be driving BMW's around instead of jumping out of 20 story buildings)... Oh wait, The US doesn't sell BMW's?... What do we sell? Boeing Airplanes? MSFT & AAPL? (they already can STEAL that)...

Does CV have to go on and get "real funny" with this... Nope! It's the first day of summer (meaning "lazy days" ahead)... So I'm going to only pen "fill in the blanks" comedy... Each will be required to supply your own punch lines...

One guy (from CNBS), even tried to get "technical" (which was a more plausible approach - yet even he failed to deliver the proper summary in the end)...

---

(from CNBC)
"The S&P 500 has held above its 200-day moving average since Tuesday, providing a bullish signal, but it has bumped up against resistance around the 1,121 level, the point that marks the halfway point between the October 2007 historic highs and the lows of March 2009.

Orlando said the fact that the index retested and bounced off the low for the year earlier this month is another positive sign, as investors appear to be ignoring negative data in favor of cheap prices.

"If that's happening, that suggests we're going to be back in an uptrend because investors are ignoring near-term noise and are focused on what I think is a very attractive longer term valuation picture," said Orlando.

Orlando said the fact that the index retested and bounced off the low for the year earlier this month is another positive sign, as investors appear to be ignoring negative data in favor of cheap prices.

"If that's happening, that suggests we're going to be back in an uptrend because investors are ignoring near-term noise and are focused on what I think is a very attractive longer term valuation picture," said Orlando."

---

Longer term???????????????

The LONGER TERM, still, is that there are still still structural debts & deficits on a global scale, and that the CB's are printing more credit in attempt to paper over and monetize these debts instead of opting for a clearing mechanism... Unemployment is high everywhere, many sovereigns are broke and their citizens are getting increasingly unruly due to fears that they will either lose or be restricted in entitlement benefits they receive...

Nebulous statements of "yuan de-pegging" are NEAR TERM NOISE...

Hey, but whatever "floats your boat"...


298 comments:

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I-Man said...

2 ticks is 2 ticks.

McFearless said...

and $25 bucks is $25 bucks...especially in deflation.

BinT said...

25 bucks buys 2 pitchers of margaritas...and it will be 5 sooon...

Leftback said...

Short Crone,

JOHNNY RETAIL finds it hard to understand FIXED INCOME, he likes action and POM-POMs. In a funny way he lusts after VOLATILITY as a sign that he, JOHNNY, in reality a big lump of lard on the LA-Z-BOY, is ready for SPECIAL FORCES. He is truly an adventurer, who is up for RISK, APPLE PIE and the AMERICAN WAY.

His wife is a lot smarter and she prefers bonds...

karen said...

thank you all for thinking of me.. husband in town. came by to take our sons to breakfast. has me shaking mad but i'm trying to be a better person and remain calm !!! just bot another pucci bikini on ebay, to feel better : )

I-Man said...

Re; french press... how coarse of a grind do I need to avoid the sludge factor karen?

I had them do it at starbux, and there is still quite a bit of sludge.

CV said...

his wife just doesn't want to see the hard earned SHOE MONEY evaporate...

CV said...

or BIKINI money (as the case may be)...

karen said...

i made the best margaritas this weekend with that costco kirkland anejo tequila!

Shortcrone said...

While the market dithers, here's a different perspective on industrialized farming: http://food-ethics.com/2010/06/16/study-intensive-agriculture-is-good/

I find it hard to believe; wondering who sponsored the "research"...

karen said...

I-Man.. i like the sludge but i grind my own in an inexpensive grinder each morning.. and I do keep it rather coarse, tho I don't have a setting.. too fine and it tastes bitter! if you grind your own you'll get it down quickly to what taste you prefer.

CV said...

@I-Man

CV thinks it's more a matter of the pressure than the coarseness of the grind...

I-Man said...

I-Man has decided to quit drinking during the week...

That Trade Pattern Recognition book gave me the idea actually.

McFearless said...

I see the interest in bonds building to a fever pitch before they all melt away and get destroyed, more bullish sentiment than what we saw in 2008, so why not see a 10 yr that low?....if anyone has read Liar's Poker, that's the atmosphere I'm thinking of....you wanted to be in bonds, you wanted to be trading bonds...or you just didn't want to be. I'm looking for that kind of general attitude before the big bond blow-up.....the more people that talk muni's, for example, the closer we get...

The early stages of Johnny buying bonds is here....but Johnny doesn't understand the debt deflation issue.

I-Man said...

@ Crone

That article is crap.

CV said...

Or I-Man

put the sludge back to use by using a basic coffee filter and pouring another cup of hot water over it...

I-Man said...

@ K, CV

It is a damn fine cup of coffee tho, I got the pikes one.

I really like that serena organic one also.

Shortcrone said...

Leftback, so true! I actually had clients tell me that they want me to anticipate the next bubble, invest, and get out before it falls. Another client wants me to get them 10% average, no matter what the market does, because that's what stocks do, you know. I should have said, former clients, or prospects that were politely shown the door...

Leftback said...

Karen,

Glad to hear you like it strong and slightly coarse in the morning.
Nothing like grinding firmly before getting down to trading.
A great way to start the day, one imagines.

Nic said...

I-man
If you can get a metatrader account I have pattern searching software for you

Shortcrone said...

I-man, did you notice that the website is "Food Ethics"? How could that possibly be crap? Unless they are simply recycling animal waste, then perhaps there is some good there.

I-Man said...

Dude thats like a magenta card... nice work!

CV said...

3P&ADH = "Three Peaks & a Domed House"

3S&ACC = "Three strokes and a capsized canoe"

That's Chapter 1...

I-Man said...

I-Man is taking great pains to not budge on this... but will just chill and wait.

Leftback said...

This is a market for sitting tight, not losing money, and then taking a few calculated and well calibrated shots when the percentages are clearly in your favour.

10% a year.. fuhgeddaboudit.

CV said...

@Amen

What do 3 doji's, a spinning top, and an evening star or inverted hammer equal?

I-Man said...

A toolbox?

CV said...

Besides the fact that last Tuesday's candle needs to be challenged...

McFearless said...

figures people are yelling about 10% annual returns immediately AFTER the worst decade in stocks EVER. I've not come across these people and thank god I'm not getting referred to them....

The EWI writing I put up earlier is certainly applicable....

"the era of hope is not quite finished"


get into the next bubble and get out before it bursts? lol....

Leftback said...

get into the next bubble and get out before it bursts? lol....

Might be apt description of the present gold/silver bubble?

CV said...

Next bubble?

I want IN baby!

CV said...

@McF

Refer them to the "Global Idiot Bubble"...

That would be a nice warm home...

McFearless said...

alright, lots of wavers in a rush to call this mornings top the top of Wave 2 (who cares about degree right now)I'm thinking this is what EWI will roll with, calling the top a ...I disagree....

I still think the overall count is pretty clean as a corrective ABC down to the recent lows, this is the larger B wave. I know AT couldn't do an update this weekend but I'm guessing he's still favoring this...he has to be.

Of course, the wavers rolling with this as a bullish primary wave 3 UP are just living in crazytown, neighbors of Timmay and the Wizard.

Shortcrone said...

CV-The Global Idiot Bubble will never burst!

BinT said...

the global idiot bubble is affecting the Frog soccer team even as we speak....!

McFearless said...

Lefty,

re gold, yes, there does seem to be an awful lot of buy-in to the gold/inflation argument, a completely silly argument which requires virtually no work to understand why....70 + years of inflation and gold was down for about 50 of them...but hey, inflation is coming...so buy gold?

Ironworker said...

I-Man,
If you're really into the coffee thing, you should consider roasting your own - once you're set up, it takes about 20 minutes to roast a pound of green beans (12-13 oz. roasted) and way cheaper than designer roasts. Also consider getting a burr-type grinder for much more consistent grinds (I've had "cheapies" that did OK). If you're interested, I can point you to a couple of resources for green beans and roasting and/or talk you through the process.
IW

Nic said...

I-Man
I posted some harmonic charts for you
http://geometricharmony.blogspot.com/2010/06/monday-21-june.html

I-Man said...

Very cool Nic, thank you!

Nice waterfall here, pissed I missed it.

CV said...

And just like that...

Back on the 200SMA

CV said...

The 233 is at 1095

CV said...

Last Tuesday's candle...

McFearless said...

hey I should come up with these ...this isn't the top of wave 2...posts more often.

shifting focus....EWI has called the top of the dollar, that count has a lot of issues, they are calling wave 1 extended but it's really about the same size as three, and the structure of 2 and 4 of wave (1) look very similar, not really alteration....they also have lesser degree second waves retracing more than wave (2) and at lesser degree you have to force 5 waves to come up with an impuslive count...

We've gotten a decent pull-back in the dollar thus far, it's likely got quite a bit further to go before it settles into a bottom imo.

CV said...

Since FLASH CRASH (where $SPX) pierced the 233SMA...

- 13 closes over
- 2 closes under
- 2 OVER
- 2 UNDER
- 1 OVER
- 5 UNDER
- currently on our 7th day over (tomorrow would be day 8)

Leftback said...

Late day sell-off on a MONDAY.... whatever next...?
Karen must be beside herself with excitement. In a bikini.

In other news, a CLAVADISTA d'ORO has perked up LB's rooster.

McFearless said...

I find all the praise getting pushed toward Canada puzzling, funny, and scary wrapped in one. Unless you were in a coma for the US real estate bubble you have no excuse for not seeing the parallels....but apparently we should all look past that and just say Canada's got it figured out....

karen said...

from Jesse's Cafe:


As I suggested last night, the spike higher in the futures was artificial, and worth fading to the short side. But while it stays above the trendline now around 1110 I would not lean on it too hard, since the threat of a snapback rally in the last hour is always there on these thin volumes. If it breaks down, we are probably heading down to the 1060 support in a roundabout way. The economy is floundering, with about half of US GDP dependent on fraud in financial assets and corporate accounting.

McFearless said...

"The economy is floundering, with about half of US GDP dependent on fraud in financial assets and corporate accounting."

Ah, I love this dude.

He must not really believe that...otherwise he wouldn't push gold....

BinT said...

STRELNIKOV!....er, no, Hussman. But I still like the way he writes his Monday musing...

"Having largely cleared the recent oversold condition of the market, we are at an important inflection point. A further recovery in market action would most likely create modest further demand from already well-invested speculators and trend followers, and modest offsetting supply from already defensive value-oriented investors, allowing a dull but moderate continuation of upside progress. On the other hand, a deterioration in market action would likely trigger a substantial amount of liquidation by speculators, into a market where fundamentally-oriented investors would require large price adjustments in order to absorb it. That outcome could result in a price discontinuity.

As I've noted before, if something induces one trader to sell, the market must move in a way that either removes that impulse, or induces another trader to buy. In equilibrium, there is no other possibility. When an overvalued market loses support from market internals, it frequently produces discontinuous outcomes ranging from brief "air pockets" to "panics" to "crashes." Emphatically, I am not forecasting or predicting a discontinuity as the only possible outcome, but it is important to recognize that the risk is elevated."

...I have seen a "discontinuity"...amazing in its simplicity, turrible in its effect.

(Lefty, this would be similar to both twins going back home at once.....)

Leftback said...

DXY has room to roam to 87.12

Go BUCKY...

Lord Blankfiend said...

B in T: I think what you're saying is "sold to you JOHNNY.."

Leftback said...

A touch of GOLD STEEL today....?

CV said...

Tawny might need to invite all her sorority sisters to the BBQ...

AmenRa said...

Honestly when I see gold sell off like it did today I'm thinking margin calls. Use your most liquid asset to CYA.

AmenRa said...

CV

1110.02 like a hot knife through butter...

CV said...

Below 200SMA again... (DAILY)

PPT team? Katherine?

CV said...

@Amen

Some Hedge Fund probably blew up over Natty and the tree is shaking out...

McFearless said...

Paul Krugman....I used to think only the poor debt slaves did crack, the others opting for...some finer powder...but he must use it too (crack).

CV said...

Warren Buffet Says...

"When the tide goes out"...

McFearless said...

speaking of Natty, I'm wondering what John Arnolds P&L looks like today.....I'm thinking he was likely on the right side of the trade, in ways I don't even understand.

I-Man said...

I guess 1116 is the next conservative short entry, with 1110 a riskier option... maybe tomorrow.

CV said...

"Like a hot knife through butter"...

That 3 iron that Ernie Els fanned into the 18th hole yesterday looked kind of like he was hitting a butter knife...

Leftback said...

ICP Asset Mgmt may have to liquidate, latest SEC target.

Ernie Els said...

Nothing like a Worm Burner on National TV, ey?

BinT said...

CV,

Did you see the postgame interviews with Tiger and Lefty? Mich. was a gentleman, Tiger a tight-lipped a-hole.

Remind me that I still think he's a punk, have since he joined the tour....

Lord Blankfiend said...

Existing Home Sales "anticipated"?

McFearless said...

1120's ended up being a good short today....

we'll see how the rest of the week plays out

maybe it was because I was away for a few days but all the buzz this morning about the yuan seemed flat out stupid to me....seems the market agrees.

McFearless said...

Bruce,

Tiger's rounds this weekend reminded me a lot about the market and social mood, he shot that 66 and the commentators were all gaga over him, you've got dustin johnson playing out of his head that day and all they just can't stop talking about Tiger, Phil is coming to 18 looking at the big board and they say "he must notice Tiger up there now" blah blah blah....all this a day before it all fell apart again.

Watch out for those cliffs.....

CV said...

@BinT

Yeah - Tiger sure wasn't very gracious...

Others were VERY gracious...

Leftback said...

Lefty is always a gentleman. Even when he puts it in the ocean.

CV said...

@McF

I'd shorted a little at 1120 on Friday...

I just held onto those and rode out this morning...

Leftback said...

Tiger is always pleasant and easy-going.

...when he's winning.

CV said...

Lefty has a lot more "family" perspective on things...

Obviously...

CV said...

"all the buzz this morning about the yuan seemed flat out stupid to me....seems the market agrees."

Hence, the thread topic...

CV said...

Hey whadda ya know?

Another "ramp job" in the last 10 minutes to get it back above the 200SMA!

LOL

CV said...

Cv is just going to start an e-mini account and trade the last 20 minutes of the tape every day...

Leftback said...

Great day for LB.
A massive gold short was rewarded with LA CLAVADISTA....

McFearless said...

lol, look how that painted...buy those dips!

in the words of dylan;

don't think twice...it's alright.

Mannwich said...

@short crone: Many of us have suspected as much - that people don't care about the rationale for something "going up" now. They just want in and then out before it bursts. Sure recipe for a healthy market, economy and country. LOL. What an utter farce it's all become.

Mannwich said...

So in a nutshell, we have learned nothing, not A THING, yet, as a result of this mess, or we've learned precisely the WRONG things with the help of our so-called leaders.

Shortcrone said...

Mannwich, combine that with the incessant calls from wholesalers about how this is the time to invest in junk bonds, global stocks and the like, well, it's enough to make me close up shop and go for a ride. Unfortunately, today it's hot enough to melt rubber on pavement, so off to spinning class I go!

I don't blame the clients, though. They get their information from the media, and can't understand why I don't have a positive outlook for the short/intermediate term.

Shortcrone said...

It's easy to forget that people really don't have a clue or don't have the confidence to seek out knowledge. When they talk about their personal experience, the people they know without jobs, the increased number of people on prayer lists, etc., they get it. And bless their hearts, some even listen.

Leftback said...

Most inwestors are easy meat for the Wall Street sausage machine.

Your savings go in, and their bonus comes out, just don't ask how they make the sausage.

Mannwich said...

@lb: Let's call much of it what it is - "legalized theft". But like you said, the Wall Street sausage is too complicated for most average people to understand so the blind faith continues.....

Mack said...

zsl looks good her imo. picked some up at 31.50. hopefully we'll see it get back to 40 here real soon.

Mannwich said...

I agree, Mack. Had been watching that one for a while and been thinking about picking up a nibble.

McFearless said...

too complicated?

Rubbish.

It's not as if Joe and Jane are buying CDO squared's here.

I find it more "real" to just call it like it is; most people have decided they have "better" things to do with their time. I'm likely not going to win a lot of points by saying this but people get exactly what they deserve out of markets. It's not Wall Streets fault people lose money. Nobody is being forced to participate. Is Wall Street set up to take advantage of this lack of due diligence? Well of course, do you know any other business that doesn't do this? I can't think of one, not a for profit biz anyway.

Even the concept of being able to put money somewhere for years and then just being able to collect multiples of that at some point in the future without much work is GIB to the extreme is it not?

I'm thinking you guys are being a bit too kind, and jumping on a bandwagon of blaming bad guy Wall St. People are just lazy and can't control their emotions. Most people have had this problem since grade school, where they had a deep desire to fit in, rather than stand alone, even if it was the right thing to do.

Mannwich said...

@ben: OK, maybe not "too complicated" per se, but maybe most people are "too lazy" to bone up on what they need to know, which is hard to fathom, since one's hard earned money should be of the utmost importance. However, there are millions who are math and reality challenged in this country, so I think it's true that this stuff is indeed "too complicated" for some and many investments and fees (especially on mutual funds) are hard to figure out for the average person who doesn't have the time with kids, jobs other distrations in their lives. Don't forget that just because you do this for a living and is your passion that other have anywhere near the level of interest you do in this stuff. Plenty of decent, hard working, average people do have other priorities. That's all I'm saying. I think it's complicated and there's plenty of blame to go around here - on Wall Street and on the investor. Greed, ignorance, and laziness have taken over.

Mannwich said...

One other thing - even if Joe and Jane investor aren't buying CDO's, they're still negatively affected by the institutions that do engage in these activities when said insitutions come to the brink of bringing down the global markets and economy. Again, it IS complicated. Connect the dots. Don't be an apologist for Wall Street, ben, and I won't be one for J6P. Deal? ;-)

Mannwich said...

One last comment on this, ben - with Banana Ben and his misguided monetary policies basically BEGGING regular people to become speculators in lieu of parking their money in good old fashioned savings, where they get nada for their money (and are basically having their money stolen from them by the Fed and the big banks), what else would you expect from them? Incentives do matter and Benny is incenting a nation of speculators to get fleeced at the Wall Street trough.

McFearless said...

Manny,

those are all fair points, but here's the thing, if a person has all that other stuff to deal with, kids, jobs, other, they just dont' have time for the market game. There is no rule that says they HAVE TO get involved with markets. I know its hard because we didnt' live it but there was a time when the public generally hated stocks....it wasn't that long ago in the large scheme of things.


I realize that other people have other priorities, and they are certainly entitled to those, but I'm not allowing that to be an excuse for making flash decisions with their "hard earned money" when they lose it.

For years I've had questions asked of me about the market, or about money by peers, family, etc, and when I try to explain I can watch the interest fizzle right away after it takes more than a few minutes to explain. I once had an Uncle ask me about money, and when I explained to him that there was no money left in the states he said: "Am I still going to be able to watch Penn State play football on Saturday's" (he won't work with me btw but he's got a lot of questions about why he got killed in 08, just doesnt' want the answers bad enough)

I guess what I'm getting at is that there are lots of ways out there to make money, why not just stick with something you are actually interested in, rather than getting involved because everybody else is.

Maybe I'm biased here because I've had too many instances where I was very specific in telling someone not to do a certain thing with money as I knew it would be bad for them and they did it anyway, in some cases in spite of the fact that I had spent hours and hours telling them all the reasons why not to do it. I stick by the idea that people get what they deserve out of this. That's not to say if you work hard at markets you always win, that's impossible, but the odds arent' stacked against people because this stuff is too complicated.

In the years I've been doing this, more often than not, you find most people are just looking for another handout where they take and given nothing in return....

McFearless said...

Manny, being an apologist for Wall St. and saying that when people don't do homework, and buy something anyway and therefore deserve to lose is hardly the same thing....I'm about as anti-Wall St. was a person "in the business" can be, a total outcast in my chosen career.

Will respond more later, gotta run to a mtg.

Mannwich said...

I hear you, ben, and don't necessarily disagree, but I think that average folks are caught between a rock and a hard place and feel a bit on the speculative treadmill that Banana Ben has them on.....

Of course, many more are also just plain ignorant, dumb and greedy, a toxic brew of sorts. I agree with that. Again, it's complicated. Our leaders' policies throughout this mess are not helping matters in this regard, IMO.

McFearless said...

Manny,

come on dude, people are being forced to take risk because of the Wizard? No way.

you could have rolled over t-bills the last decade and absolutely destroyed the stock market that the wizard is apparently forcing you to participate in. It wasn't Benny that made them take risk.

I have to reject that idea, maybe we have to disagree on that point, I get what you are generally saying....just don't accept it that easily.

and to be clear, you wouldn't find a happier person than me if half of wall st. just went up in a cloud of smoke.

back later.

Mannwich said...

@ben: Fair point but it ain't easy for people to go against the grain when all of conventional "wisdom" is out there screaming at you to "buy equities for the long run" and "buy the dips". It's everywhere. You go against the grain and know how hard it is. It takes a strong will to do it. I do it as well. It's not easy or fun, so I'm just looking at the other side of this and trying to show a little empathy. Many more on Wall Street know better and have more sinister motives. Ignorance is hardly comparable to that.

Ironworker said...

@Manny,
Bernanke isn't begging savers to invest, he's putting a gun to their heads and demanding that they put their savings into some form of risk by guaranteeing no return if they don't. As my mother is fond of saying: "You used to be able to put your money into a savings acct. and earn 5-6%, and into reasonably safe bonds and earn a bit more." She would be thrilled with a reasonably safe 6-8% for the bulk of her retirement savings.
I understand the deflation argument and I agree that we currently have asset deflation...I frankly don't believe the gov't inflation numbers re:items one needs to live- and I think that that will only get worse.

IW

Anonymous said...

I completely agree with Mannwich. Rolling over T-bills seemed like an absolute loser's game prior to 2008. And dollar cost averaging was widely accepted to be a safe and (long term) better approach for the unsophisticated masses than bonds of any kind. "Stocks for the long run", anyone?

McFearless said...

I'm not saying the street doesn't put out a lot of BS propaganda like how dollar cost averaging always works, they do. I see it every single day. That said, there is a reason that all of you that do not do this or trade for a living ended up at a site like this or TBP, etc. It's because you eventually observed markets and outcomes in your accounts and started asking questions due to the inconsistency of reality and the papers like those that tout dollar cost averaging. You asked questions because you wanted answers and you had enough motivation/interest to find them. This all started with comments about how it's somehow the streets fault for bad information and that's why people are losing money. If others aren't able to do what some of you did/do, which is to look into things first, and they lose all their money, they have to take responsibility for that. This is what I'm saying. You can't just blame it all on the companies on the street, or on bad news reporting, or books that a professor wrote. Conquer The Crash was written around the same time as his book, I had prof's at b-school that gave warnings etc, people choose what they listen to, they aren't forced to do anything at all. It's not the streets fault that there was a widely held perception that tbills were a money loser before 08? First, they weren't by everyone on the street, and second, so did the dollar last fall, so did shorting stocks in 07, so did going long stocks in March of 09. It's not the street's fault if people bet the other way, or miss it all and many of the best investments appear to be money losers at exactly the best time to buy, a simple thing that any first year student of the market learns "look to buy what others hate" "buy when there is blood in the streets" etc etc.

You won't find a bigger advocate than me for getting rid of an entity like the Federal Reserve, because they destroy lives, but last I checked, nobody was forced into stocks, bonds or the new must have asset class (because you make money in it, btw, and for no other reason because you aren't taking delivery) commodities.

I'm not trying to make light of anyone's arguments, but it does seem to me there is a general problem people have in taking responsibility for losses, I've certainly been guilty of this in the past, and the points being offered to me all place the blame somewhere else beside at the feet of the investor.

This idea that people are forced to take risk with their dollar paycheck, I mean, is this the excuse for the real estate bubble, you HAD to put your money somewhere, cash just wasn't paying.?

And still, after a decade of negative stock returns, why is everyone so focused on the nominal return on cash in this discussion, or any investment for that matter. That's really interesting.

Also, regarding what you used to get on cash in the good ole days; First of all, cash rates were huge payers when your best bet was to buy stocks...not cash, once again cash only seemed good then, but it wasn't. Second, that was happening during inflation, expansion of the money supply and credit, so the "cash" was in fact becoming less valuable, and therefore that needs to be subtracted from the nominal rate, and further, this idea that "your money is in the bank" completely ignores reality about what money is and what credit is, there hasn't been any "cash" getting any risk free return for decades in the US, many, many decades.

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